This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Ye, better known as Kanye West has released a song titled "Heil Hitler"
I have to admit, it's quite catchy, especially the unlikely refrain "nigger, Heil Hitler", which definitely has an intriguing ring to it. Whether Kanye is a truly great artist or not, he's nothing if not a skilled craftsman.
I've long since lost the ability to treat anything on the internet seriously and my reaction was limited to squeezing my eyes shut and suppressing a chuckle, but I suspect that the wider audience is also outraged only in a performative, inertial way. I doubt it will end up making any real impact on anything and waves in the social media will likely fizzle out in no more than a few weeks.
I wonder if we're seeing the first signs of postmodern corrosion eating away at the last grand unifying narrative of our age: WW2 mythos, with Adolf Hitler at its center not as mere historical figure, but as the archetypal villain and the secular devil. In many countries the taboo is backed by legal force, but legislation doesn't truly govern things of this nature. The law may end up hollowed out and irrelevant long before someone cares to remove it from the books
Maybe I will live to tell my incredulous grandkids about how we were all expected to perceive one specific 20th century dictator through a prism of quasi-superstitious dread.
Should this really happen, good riddance. Though on the other hand, we might end up remembering having this kind of culture spanning, unifying narrative as kind of comfy compared to total balkanization
The actual lyrics of the song are 'I still can't see my children, niggers see my twitter but they don't see how I be feeling, so I became a nazi yay bitch I'm the villain, nigger heil Hitler, they don't understand the things I say on twitter nigger heil Hitler nigger heil Hitler they don't understand the things I say on twitter all my niggers nazis nigger heil Hitler'. This is not political commentary it's lashing out. He's still framing the nazis as villains.
I agree that the WWII taboo is fading. I don't think a mentally ill black man identifying with Hitler in an act of rebellion is the sign thereof.
I’m sitting in my office at Pierce & Pierce, the glass walls reflecting the sterile glow of Manhattan’s skyline, and I can’t help but think about Kanye West’s latest track, “Heil Hitler (Hooligan Version).” The lyrics are raw, unpolished, almost juvenile in their repetition—“I still can’t see my children, niggers see my twitter but they don’t see how I be feeling, so I became a nazi yay bitch I’m the villain, nigger heil Hitler, they don’t understand the things I say on twitter nigger heil Hitler…” It’s crude, yes, but there’s something… deliberate about it. I adjust my Hermès tie—red, with subtle navy accents, a perfect complement to my charcoal Armani suit—and I consider the narrative being spun here. Some might call this a tantrum, a mentally ill black man identifying with Hitler in some rebellious fever dream, but that’s too simplistic. No, this is political. This is Kanye leaning into the role of the Nazi villain, a role the left, the globalists, the rootless cosmopolitans, and the neoconservatives have already cast him in, whether he likes it or not. Let’s break this down. I sip my San Pellegrino, the bubbles sharp against my tongue, and I think about Kanye’s trajectory. He’s been a lightning rod for years—his 2022 X post, where he declared he “loves Hitler” and identified as a Nazi, wasn’t a one-off. It was a gauntlet thrown down. The man’s been frozen out, his assets seized, his partnerships with Adidas and others severed like a bad merger. The American Jewish Committee’s Ted Deutch called it “blatant antisemitism,” and The Spectator’s Johnathan Sacerdoti dismissed the lyrics as a “crude litany” of Nazi slogans. But what do they expect? Kanye’s not playing their game. He’s not apologizing, not backtracking, not begging for forgiveness at some gala at the Waldorf Astoria, wearing a borrowed Brioni tuxedo while sipping Veuve Clicquot. No, he’s doubling down. And why shouldn’t he? The left, with their sanctimonious word-policing, the globalists with their borderless, homogenized agendas, the neocons with their endless wars—they’ve already labeled him a Nazi. They did it the moment he stepped out of line, the moment he supported Trump in 2020, the moment he started talking about “Zionist schools” and “financial engineering” on Tucker Carlson’s show. They don’t care about nuance. They don’t care about his custody battles or his bipolar disorder, which he’s admitted to, by the way—31 million followers on social media, and they still reduce him to a caricature. So what does he do? He gives them what they want. He becomes the villain they’ve scripted for him. “So I became a nazi yay bitch I’m the villain.” It’s almost… poetic. I flip through my Rolodex, looking for my tailor’s number—I need to schedule a fitting for a new Zegna overcoat—and I consider the political angle here. This isn’t just lashing out, some primal scream into the void. Kanye’s smarter than that. He’s always been a provocateur, a performance artist masquerading as a rapper. Look at the album this track is tied to—“Cuck,” with its Ku Klux Klan-inspired art, tracks like “Gas Chambers” and “Hitler Ye and Jesus.” He’s not shying away from the imagery, the symbolism, the history. He’s weaponizing it. The left and their allies have created a world where dissent is met with excommunication, where any deviation from the script gets you branded with the scarlet letter of “Nazi.” Kanye knows this. He’s seen the neo-Nazi Goyim Defense League banners in Los Angeles, proclaiming “Kanye is right about the Jews” over highways, giving Nazi salutes while the Anti-Defamation League scrambles to condemn them. He’s seen the protests, the outrage, the think pieces. So he leans in. “Nigger heil Hitler, they don’t understand the things I say on twitter, all my niggas nazis.” He’s not framing the Nazis as villains here—not really. He’s framing himself as the villain, yes, but it’s a middle finger to the system that’s already judged him. If they’re going to call him a Nazi no matter what he says, he might as well own it, amplify it, make it so loud they can’t ignore it. It’s a power move, a reclamation of the narrative, even if it’s drenched in swastika-like doodles and militaristic visuals of men in animal skins, as the music video reportedly shows. I glance at my Patek Philippe watch—1:47 PM, I have a lunch reservation at Le Bernardin in 13 minutes—and I think about the broader context. The WWII taboo is fading, sure, but this isn’t about that. This isn’t some cultural shift where we’re all suddenly okay with Nazi iconography because the history feels distant. No, this is Kanye recognizing the hypocrisy of his critics. The left, the globalists, the neocons—they thrive on control, on dictating the terms of discourse. They’ve built a machine that crushes dissent, that paints anyone who questions their dogma as a monster. Kanye’s not identifying with Hitler because he’s mentally ill or because he’s rebelling against some abstract taboo. He’s doing it because he’s been backed into a corner. They’ve called him a Nazi for years—since his “Jewish bitch” lyrics, since his Burzum-inspired album art, since his rants about Zionist schools. So he’s saying, fine. You want a Nazi? I’ll give you a Nazi. “Nigger heil Hitler.” It’s a mirror held up to his detractors, a grotesque reflection of their own tactics. He’s not the villain because he wants to be. He’s the villain because they’ve made him one. And in that sense, this track, this video, this entire album—it’s political. It’s a statement. It’s Kanye West taking the label they’ve forced on him and turning it into a weapon. I grab my coat—cashmere, Tom Ford, impeccable—and head for the elevator. I can’t be late for lunch. Eric Ripert’s sea urchin dish is a revelation, and I need to be seated before the Wall Street crowd floods the place. But as I step into the lobby, I can’t shake the thought: Kanye’s not wrong to play their game. He’s just better at it than they are.
Is this meant to be read in Patrick Bateman's voice?
edit: shows my shallow media literacy that I didn't recognize a direct reference as soon as "Pierce & Pierce"
Ideally.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link