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PaperclipPerfector  3d ago (text post)   15056 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 12, 2025

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Fantastic post, thanks! Lots of stuff in there that I can agree with, though I'm a lot more optimistic than you. Those 3 questions are well stated and help to clarify points of disagreement, but (as always) reality probably doesn't factor so cleanly.

I really think almost all the meat lies in Question 1. You're joking a little with the "line goes to infinity" argument, but I think almost everyone reasonable agrees that near-future AI will plateau somehow, but there's a world of difference in where it plateaus. If it goes to ASI (say, 10x smarter than a human or better), then fine, we can argue about questions 2 and 3 (though I know this is where doomers love spending their time). Admittedly, it IS kind of wild that this this a tech where we can seriously talk about singularity and extinction as potential outcomes with actual percentage probabilities. That certainly didn't happen with the cotton gin.

There's just so much space between "as important as the smartphone" -> "as important as the internet" (which I am pretty convinced is the baseline, given current AI capabilities) -> "as important as the industrial revolution" -> "transcending physical needs". I think there's a real motte/bailey in effect, where skeptics will say "current AIs suck and will never get good enough to replace even 10% of human intellectual labour" (bailey), but when challenged with data and benchmarks, will retreat to "AIs becoming gods is sci-fi nonsense" (motte). And I think you're mixing the two somewhat, talking about AIs just becoming Very Good in the same paragraph as superintelligences consuming galaxies.

I'm not even certain assigning percentages to predictions like this really makes much sense, but just based on my interactions with LLMs, my good understanding of the tech behind them, and my experience using them at work, here are my thoughts on what the world looks like in 2030:

  • 2%: LLMs really turn out to be overhyped, attempts at getting useful work out of them have sputtered out, I have egg all over my face.
  • 18%: ChatGPT o3 turns out to be roughly at the plateau of LLM intelligence. Open-Source has caught up, the models are all 1000x cheaper to use due to chip improvements, but hallucinations and lack of common sense are still a fundamental flaw in how the LLM algorithms work. LLMs are the next Google - humans can't imagine doing stuff without a better-than-Star-Trek encyclopedic assistant available to them at all times.
  • 30%: LLMs plateau at roughly human-level reasoning and superhuman knowledge. A huge amount of work at companies is being done by LLMs (or whatever their descendant is called), but humans remain employed. The work the humans do is even more bullshit than the current status quo, but society is still structured around humans "pretending to work" and is slow to change. This is the result of "Nothing Ever Happens" colliding with a transformative technology. It really sucks for people who don't get the useless college credentials to get in the door to the useless jobs, though.
  • 40%: LLMs are just better than humans. We're in the middle of a massive realignment of almost all industries; most companies have catastrophically downsized their white-collar jobs, and embodied robots/self-driving cars are doing a great deal of blue-collar work too. A historically unprecedented number of humans are unemployable, economically useless. UBI is the biggest political issue in the world. But at least entertainment will be insanely abundant, with Hollywood-level movies and AAA-level videogames being as easy to make as Royal Road novels are now.
  • 9.5%: AI recursively accelerates AI research without hitting engineering bottlenecks (a la "AI 2027"), ASI is the new reality for us. The singularity is either here or visibly coming. Might be utopian, might be dystopian, but it's inescapable.
  • 0.5%: Yudkowsky turns out to be right (mostly by accident, because LLMs resemble the AI in his writings about as closely as they resemble Asimov's robots). We're all dead.

Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I don’t think people realize how dark a scenario where 90 percent of people are rendered economically irrelevant could get. I don’t think the first solution contemplated is going to be to start handing out UBI.

Why would it get dark? Look at Australian Aboriginals. 90% of the pure blooded ones are economically irrelevant and yet they cope.

Sure their coping methods involve gasoline, glue and drinking but I like to think 130+ IQ Anglos are instead going to do something less self-destructive. And you'll probably be able to get some good mileage out of AI usesticking a lot of neuralink into your brain and directly interfacing with the AI through thoughts.

Also AIs are pretty easy to align so lot of people will likely just keep being economically and competitive useful by purchasing their own AGI and using it as an extension of their self.

Why would it get dark

Because the people who control 99 percent of the wealth of the planet (which no longer requires human consumers or employees), and 100 percent of the military resources (which no longer require human soldiers) will decide that they don’t need 7.9 billion useless eaters crapping up their planet.

Are you telling me that Putin and Xi etc trusts American Deep State? Because that's what you're saying, essentially. That the elites trust each other.

It’s saying that, with sufficient mental and physical automation, they don’t need other human beings in order to pursue their rivalry.

Which is why they'd risk getting killed by conspiring with their opposite numbers and plotting a joint worldwide genocide.

No, this does not make sense.

I think you're missing Corvos' point (or I'm missing everything and seeing my own instead): They don't need to conspire. They can just eliminate their own subject humans because they're nothing but a liability at this point. In fact, a lack of conspiracy makes it more likely for this to happen, because it should make the faction that ditches its ballast more competitive!

Precisely. At a certain ratio of machine:human ability, NOT committing genocide starts being harder than doing it.

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