site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 12, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

From your article, it seems like the obstacle is simply the cost recovery mechanism - i.e. they build it as they fund it and it takes that long to fund it using the current surcharge. I don't think that really says anything about "schedule disease" as such, it's just another example of cost disease.

it sounds bonkers that they planned a project like this, and when it came to "how do we pay for it?", their answer was the equivalent of "uh, look down the back of the sofa for some spare change".

I mean it's possible they had additional funding mechanisms in mind back in the 60s when the program started that just never materialized. Here's some trickle of cash, get started, if it goes well then later we can expand it and yet 60 years later no one wants to pony up the cash (and regulatory reforms) to make it happen.

It does seem like poor planning if the project is sixty years down the line and nobody figured out "how do we fund this?" though to be fair, it does sound like the usual local government "kick the can down the road" methodology.

The project started with a tax to fund it. That has lasted to this day. Depending on how high an electricity bill is, a progressive tax is applied to fund this program.

https://pwp.cityofpasadena.net/undergroundfaqs/

Q: How is the Underground Program funded? A: Initial construction costs are funded through an Underground Surtax on electric bills. As of now, the Surtax ranges from 1.21% to 4.34% of the total charges depending on your monthly electric usage. For a typical 500 kwh-per-month residential customer, the Underground Surtax is about $44 per year.


$44 per household per year does sound anemic. Some resident asked if they could double it to make the project move faster. City leaders say no, other constraints prevent moving faster.

But residents proposed increasing taxes to speed it up and the response was that won't work.

Some have suggested doubling the tax to halve the life of the project, but city officials say the disruption to traffic and available crews would make that impossible.

They're kind of pivoting from one excuse to another.

But sure, cost disease and schedule disease are close relatives. To some degree this would speed up if it was very cheap.

If it was cheaper to do then the same funding rate would finish it sooner