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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   30437 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 21, 2022

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Yes. Immigration's strongest proponents would never accept titanic rules (i.e. only women and children can come). Why not? Why do they want men? It's certainly not employment.

Why do they want men

Perhaps they don't "want" anyone. Astrahagant was referring to asylum seekers and refugees; perhaps they think that men, too, have a right to seek asylum, which should not be a surprising belief to hold, given that it is true. More broadly, perhaps they believe that keeping families united, rather than excluding husbands/fathers, is good policy.

men, too, have a right to seek asylum

It isn't "men, too" it's "men, almost exclusively".

Assuming it is true -- the UNHCR says that 40% of refugees are children -- why does that matter to the question of why proponents of admitting refugees hold that view? If Fred says, "we have a moral obligation to help refugees," how would the gender breakdown be relevant?

Since the story of the fired swedish dentist I don't take any official data regarding Assylum Seekers at face value. Do you have reason to do so (like the dentist was lying or something)?

I don't know if he is lying, but I note that he is actually a dental hygienist, not a dentist, so I wonder about his expertise. And RT is hardly the most reliable source. But, regardless, as as I noted elsewhere, the data I linked to is not about asylum seekers. It is about refugees and internally displaced persons. And, as I also noted elsewhere, the EU says that most of the asylum seekers it lists as under 18 are under 13; it is pretty tough to pass off someone that young as an adult.

but I note that he is actually a dental hygienist, not a dentist, so I wonder about his expertise.

fair, but I would assume judging Wisdom Teeth development isn't outside his expertise.

And RT is hardly the most reliable source.

Right now, no mainstream source is reliable, especially in politically charged events.

But, regardless, as as I noted elsewhere, the data I linked to is not about asylum seekers. It is about refugees and internally displaced persons.

fair

And, as I also noted elsewhere, the EU says that most of the asylum seekers it lists as under 18 are under 13; it is pretty tough to pass off someone that young as an adult.

Again, I don't really trust mainstream sources with an economic/political incentives in these types of situations. Any NGO's or European commission can write that a chicken is a dog if it's to their benefit or according to their principles.

We're talking about refugees in the west. The 40% stat on that page is of all displaced people everywhere. Most of the displaced people are displaced in their own country according to that website. And of refugees most don't end up in the West. So it could be totally true that 40% of people displaced globally are children and that the vast majority of people arriving in Europe are military aged men. I think that's the case based on videos of them arriving, and of the ones who are classified as children I think many are lying.

Yes, it is possible -- despite some of the rhetoric, I am pretty sure that males are more likely to be the victims of the sort of violence, etc, which tends to engender flight, and re those who exit looking for work, it is often young men who go out to earn money to send back -- but Pew found in 2015 that 29% of asylum seekers in Europe were under 18. Forty-two percent were males 18-34. So, overrepresented, yes, but not the majority, let alone the vast majority. And this estimates that 46% of illegal immigrants in the US are female. The DHS estimate for 2015-2018 is similar: 5.54 million female out of 11.39 million.

27 percent women so definitely overwhelmingly male. I don't trust the self reported ages of the migrants but even if true 17 year olds are military age in the US.

The claim was overwhelmingly military age male, not overwhelmingly male. And, this indicates that most of those under 18 are under 13. Twenty-five percent of the total for the EU as a whole.

As an aside, note also that it indicates that most applications are rejected.

I think a lot of the perception comes from 2015-2016 when much larger numbers were arriving. I couldn't find statistics with a quick search but looking through the images on the wikipedia, the wide shots show a pretty large majority being young men (at least in the wide shots, the close ups are usually women and children).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_European_migrant_crisis

Maybe this type of migrant is getting stopped more effectively now by deals with Turkey and better border security, or maybe more of them have caught on that you need to lie about your age, or maybe more young men are just sneaking in instead of trying to claim asylum.

I don't see any reason to believe that stat when pro-refugee people prove themselves to be so wilfully ignorant as to do things like this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/asylum-seeker-uk-age-school-boy-ipswich-school-stoke-home-office-a8649696.html

Fact is, if you wash up without documents, you can say just about anything to make an asylum claim and these NGO types will nod and believe you wholly. At no point in the process is there any skepticism. Claim to be gay or have undergone a flash conversion to Christianity (right after your application was rejected, curiously!) and they will not nod and smile and submit appeals forms for you. There's no reason to suspect any kind of diligence is done at all.

You clearly don't understand what the data refers to. It is simply a count of people who are displaced (btw, mostly refugees, rather than the asylees to whom you refer). It has nothing to do with whether or not they are entitled to asylum. And btw the majority of asylum claims are, of course, rejected. See data here

Who, if you ask them why they didn't bring their family along, say the road was too dangerous, and it was better for them to stay where they were.

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