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I want to follow up on the earlier discussion about anti-natalism and natalism. I find it interesting that some people see anti-natalism as being a leftist phenomenon. I feel that this is true if you limit your understanding of leftism to stereotypical Redditors. However, historically speaking, philosophical pessimism, deep skepticism about the value of life, and doubt about the value of reproduction as anything other than an animal instinct are, I think, far from left-oriented. If you think about some of the most famous people who have held such views, such as Arthur Schopenhauer, H.P. Lovecraft, Thomas Ligotti, Michel Houellebecq... well, these are certainly not leftists by any common definition of leftist. And then there is Nietzsche who, even though in his writings he constantly insisted on the value of healthy virile life, did not leave any offspring even though, despite his various health problems, he probably would not have found it that hard to get married and have kids if he had really wanted to.
I do not think that being dubious of natalism is a right-wing phenomenon, but I also certainly do not think that it is inherently a left-wing phenomenon.
Ok but skepticism about the natural course of reproduction is almost the sine qua non of progressivism(and there are no non-progressive leftists today, or very few). Progressivism was all about eugenics, originally- and it continues to be about birth control and transhumanism.
This seems to tie into a deeper division in the west, that of a telos, whereby creatures(defined broadly as 'part of the material universe') have their purpose not set by themselves. The right in the west basically believes in this; continuing itself is a telos of human life. The left in the west broadly doesn't; the purpose of human life is to do whatever it wants. There's a theistic/nontheistic division but which comes first? My philosophical commitment to the idea of a telos comes from my theism but there are many whose theism was derived from their belief in telos. In turn this ties into the commitments to stability and continuity vs individualism and self growth.
Under a 'your purpose is to do what you want' framework obviously that can't be wrong, because it's subjective. Yes, most leftists would be skeptical of a young woman claiming she wants to take care of babies and bake, but that's what false consciousness is about- it's not wrong to want that, she's just wrong about what she wants. It's an epicycle, not a real course correction. Contrast a framework which believes in telos- if what you want is to 'advocate' then you are wrong for writing off just being normal. You 'make a difference in the world' by fulfilling your appointed task, which probably isn't something particularly notable.
There's far less charitable ways to phrase these things, obviously. But the core of conservatism is this idea that, yeah, you kinda just have to, circumstances beyond your control have spoken. See the trans debate- the core of the conservative objection is 'drop your pants in front of a mirror- you see a penis? Yeah, it means you have to be male. It doesn't matter if you're sure you'd rather be a girl. Sometimes you have to do the things you have to do.'. It's why normiecons don't get conspicuously upset about child support laws even when they suck for individual men 'supporting their kids is what dads do. Suck it up, it's your job.' or think that unwanted pregnancies don't justify an abortion 'yeah, moms put their child's needs before their own wants. Get over it, that's what you are now.'.
I support the dictatorship of the universe. No good comes from defying it. Progressives simply think it's unfair that being male means being male- after all, you didn't get to pick. That's why they're so obsessed with consent all the time.
You really think the average trucker in Iowa opposes the pronoun people because of this "telos" stuff? He just says "that's a man in a dress" and leaves it at that. As do I. Just as a matter of political strategy, maybe it's a good idea to try and seem more normal and less weird than the people surgically mutilating their genitals.
Couldn't you say that abortion bans and child support laws, rather than the absence of those things, violate the dictatorship of the universe? There is none of that in the animal kingdom, if a young animal can't secure voluntary provisioning from adults, it doesn't get to live. If you really take this ideology seriously, you don't get Ned Flanders, you get the Roman Empire, where there were no child support laws and infanticide was regarded as a private family matter. I don't go as far as Roman Empire morality, I think slavery is wrong, but I'm probably closer to it than 80% of Roman Statue accounts, which is why they don't like me and call me a lib.
I share your intuition that no good comes from defying human nature - which is precisely what abortion bans and child support laws do. Abortion bans are dysgenic in effect, fostering low intelligence, criminality, and low-investment parenting. Likewise, child support laws replace the natural order, in which women had to carefully choose (and work to attract) responsible mates with one in which they are "freed" from the necessity to do this, ultimately leading to more low-investment parenting. Think about all these NBA players paying child support to multiple women. The kids at least receive money, but they will probably wind up replicating the culture and genetics of their parents. The sons will share the same impulse to low-em and leave-em, while probably not having NBA-level salaries.
Yes, but as the poster you're replying to pointed out, he wouldn't say it that way. He believes in human "nature" and that human beings have different "purposes" or roles depending on their nature (i.e. a teleogical belief). But he doesn't know what "telos" is, so he would just say:
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