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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   3579 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for May 23, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I'm thinking of biting the bullet on plastic surgery. I've always had chubby cheeks, without that much definition even when I was 10 kilos lighter, and buccal fat removal was something I'd been eyeing for years. I just didn't really have the money or the impetus to go for it back then.

I had an appointment with a reputable plastic surgeon today, and started off with a debate on whether he could exclude body dysmorphia in my case lol. I explained that in a psychiatric context, didn't any degree of dissatisfaction with one's physical appearance that involved attempts to modify it count? Why doesn't going to the gym or dieting to lose weight count? Besides, you'd need to have significant impairment in psychosocial functioning to warrant it. The DSM-5 includes, under BDD:*

Preoccupation with one or more perceived defects or flaws in physical appearance that are not observable or appear slight to others

While the roundness of one's face is a subjective thing, it's certainly not non-observable.

At any rate, he pretty successfully upsold me, explaining that I had hypertrophic masseters, which would make mere buccal fat removal not have very significant effects on the overall contour of the face. He also explained that instead of discarding buccal fat, as is the norm, he finds benefit from it being re-injected below the eyes and on the chin. To help tone down the masseters further, he suggested botox. I'm not particularly keen on semi-annual injections into my face, but I think it's worth a shot.

Anyone undergo anything similar?

*If it's unclear, he was taking the piss. I don't have body dysmorphia, it's a high bar to cross.

Aside from the transhumanist discussion (and, yknow), why the masseters? Isnt a wide jaw good for men, when it isnt just fat? Youre the one that learned anatomy, but I think thats the masseters we see here.

Besides adverse motivations, have you considered adverse psychological reactions? I at one point shaved off an about fingerlong beard all at once, and afterwards I felt like my head was ridiculously wide. It was quite a strange experience: I tried to check sizes and proprotions in just parts of the face and it would just... fail... and pop me back into the bigger picture where its ridiculously wide. I knew it was my face in the mirror, but it didnt feel like my face, and thats not a good experience. I resolved not to look into mirrors for a while to not feed that thought, and it was gone after a week or so. I dont entirely understand what happened, but this was from a fairly normal and minor change in appearance, and Id worry that a real plastic surgery would be worse and maybe stick around - fortunately nothing to do there. (If it matters, I definitely look better without the beard, and not just because the "haircut" it had was terrible.)

Please note that I'm not a plastic or cosmetic surgeon, nor did I pay as much attention during anatomy lessons as could be desired. The masseter can be attractive, but it's not as simple as larger is better. Bone structure, buccal fat, these all have significant effects. In the worst cases, but not mine, large masseters and buccal pads that don't go away despite weight loss can make someone appear chipmunk faced rather than like a gigachad. On the other end, a v-shaped or tapered jaw/cheek line is also a beauty standard for men, even if not as "masculine".

Psychological side effects? Honestly, I don't think they're that big a deal here. I'm not going to wake up looking like a completely different person, so I think my self-image would recover quickly. Your example of a shave is actually already in the right ballpark. Humans are usually quite resilient here. I would expect to see dysmorphic or dysphoric reactions in someone already quite mentally unwell (think severe body image issues, which didn't get better after the surgery). While I nurse dissatisfaction about my corporeal form, it's not BDD.

(I severely regret clean shaves, the last time I was coaxed into it by an ex, I was a very saddened Samson indeed).

Your example of a shave is actually already in the right ballpark.

I guess I disagree? I can see why youd think that, if youre going by an "objective" metric of similarity, but by that metric a 5 year old will always be more similar to another 5 year old than a 50 year old - and yet, we often recognise relatives on pictures where they were 5. For the sense of "do you look like the same person", things that naturally vary over time such as hair length are much less impactful than ones that require surgery.

Humans are usually quite resilient here. I would expect to see dysmorphic or dysphoric reactions in someone already quite mentally unwell

I mean, I think Im mentally well. But the reason I got rid of the beard is that it still felt uncomfortably a year in, so it doesnt seem crazy to me that such visual changes would stick around as well.

I guess I disagree? I can see why youd think that, if youre going by an "objective" metric of similarity, but by that metric a 5 year old will always be more similar to another 5 year old than a 50 year old - and yet, we often recognise relatives on pictures where they were 5. For the sense of "do you look like the same person", things that naturally vary over time such as hair length are much less impactful than ones that require surgery.

I strongly disagree on empirical grounds. Google Photo's ML face identifier consistently tracks me going back all the way to the ripe age of 4, and doesn't think I'm another random child. This simply would not work if things were as you suggest!

I mean, I think Im mentally well. But the reason I got rid of the beard is that it still felt uncomfortably a year in, so it doesnt seem crazy to me that such visual changes would stick around as well.

I'd feel uncomfortable without one, so it's more likely that your own internalized ideal of your body image has you clean shaven, whereas mine is the opposite. People who opt for plastic surgery are far more likely to have BDD, but a person who doesn't will very likely come out of it with no hangups if it wasn't a botch job.

I agree that an AI can track the "same person" thing just fine if its trained that way. But if you understand that metric, then why do you think shaving is a similar size change to surgery? Or did you already have some kind of plastic surgery that it saw through?

I'd feel uncomfortable without one, so it's more likely that your own internalized ideal of your body image has you clean shaven

No, Im very sure the discomfort is a tactile thing. Thats certainly how it seems to me, and in terms of the timeline, it was only quite a bit later, looking at photos, that I thought it had looked stupid. If Id thought that ahead of time I just wouldnt have grown it out. Again, said beard got to over 5cm, because I hoped it would feel more like headhair once long enough. Ive had short beards since, and the difference between comfortable and uncomfortable lengths is not particularly visible.

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