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PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   902 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for May 23, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I'm thinking of biting the bullet on plastic surgery. I've always had chubby cheeks, without that much definition even when I was 10 kilos lighter, and buccal fat removal was something I'd been eyeing for years. I just didn't really have the money or the impetus to go for it back then.

I had an appointment with a reputable plastic surgeon today, and started off with a debate on whether he could exclude body dysmorphia in my case lol. I explained that in a psychiatric context, didn't any degree of dissatisfaction with one's physical appearance that involved attempts to modify it count? Why doesn't going to the gym or dieting to lose weight count? Besides, you'd need to have significant impairment in psychosocial functioning to warrant it. The DSM-5 includes, under BDD:

Preoccupation with one or more perceived defects or flaws in physical appearance that are not observable or appear slight to others

While the roundness of one's face is a subjective thing, it's certainly not non-observable.

At any rate, he pretty successfully upsold me, explaining that I had hypertrophic masseters, which would make mere buccal fat removal not have very significant effects on the overall contour of the face. He also explained that instead of discarding buccal fat, as is the norm, he finds benefit from it being re-injected below the eyes and on the chin. To help tone down the masseters further, he suggested botox. I'm not particularly keen on semi-annual injections into my face, but I think it's worth a shot.

Anyone undergo anything similar?

When I search for images of "buccal fat removal men before and after" I get pictures that don't differ much at all, similar to "face during a bulk vs face during a cut".

On the one hand, this means you are unlikely to end up looking like Skeletor or Erin Moriarty. On the other hand, is it worth the expense?

It's not that expensive, perks of opting for this while visiting India. I don't have an exact quote, but even accounting for the expense of the best hospital around (no ex employee discount, sadly), I doubt it will cross 4k USD. Optimistically, less than 1k USD. I'll know a better figure once I go to the billing desk, I was too lazy to queue today. Just the buccal fat removal would be around 4k USD in the States.

There are different degrees of fat removal. My surgeon suggested 2ml both sides, which is a conservative approach. So you can go from anywhere from subtle to gaunt.

Last week I went to a followup on my stitches that the doctor who stitched me up had suggested I schedule with their plastic surgery practice. She didn't actually tell me I needed anything beyond using silicon scar tape at night, which I had already heard through the grapevine, and at any rate I'm pretty happy with how the scar is healing up, and anyway I'm married. But my wife has been highly amused, because she can now say that I went to a plastic surgeon before she did.

In general, my wife went off right now when I told her this Q, you want to be doing a lot of stuff before you start plastic surgery. Buccal fat removal in particular is really risky because you can't get it back, so if you take it out now, and your face continues to slim out as is typical with aging, you might be looking like skeletor in another ten years. ((Mrs. FiveHour: Buccal fat is the most evil procedure, alongside maybe lip filler.)) Then you get filler to fix that, filler has all kinds of problems with fading or migrating, so you have to fix that, and now you're on the plastic-surgery-overcorrection cycle. There are a lot of other options in the aesthetic treatment range to attempt first.

Have you ever heard of or tried microcurrent devices like the Ziip? It's a microcurrent device that basically electrocutes your facial muscles. The designers claim all kinds of benefits from facial contouring to clearing up skin. My wife has one, I've played around with it, but I've never been disciplined enough or cared enough to keep up with it for months. When I've used it on the "contouring" setting it does get some of that sharper look I think you're going for, and it's relatively cheap and very low risk compared to other choices you have. I know there are also salons or spas or whatever that offer a higher-end version of the home product in microcurrent facials, which you could try without committing to purchasing one and using it all the time. Rescue Spa is the top end, but I don't think they're overseas.

My wife recommends botox, it is cheap and low risk. Find a reputable provider and get very little. Start small, most women do way too much which leads to the paralyzed look. What's nice is it just goes away if you use the right amount. My wife gets them biannually, it's no big deal, small amounts in the forehead. It'll be ten years before it approaches the cost of a real surgical procedure. Let it fade off completely between shots.

Also possibly PRP injections below the eyes are something to look into, according to Mrs. FiveHour.

In general there's nothing wrong with trying to look better, and there are ways to do it, but especially as a man you absolutely must avoid the appearance of having had plastic surgery. For women there is at least a little leeway, in that obvious plastic surgery at least often has the effect of making her look slutty and sexually available, so it's not all bad. For men, visible plastic surgery is pretty much the worst thing possible, making a man look vain, effeminate, faggy, untrustworthy, and foolish. So start light and focus on the long game.

I'm aware of the risks, but they seem small and acceptable to me. My surgeon has recommended 2ml of fat removed per cheek, which is, AFAIK a very conservative value. I've probably got a decade or more before my cheeks shrink by themselves, and looking at older family members, it's not very noticeable. I think the risk of becoming gaunt are manageable.

Have you ever heard of or tried microcurrent devices like the Ziip? It's a microcurrent device that basically electrocutes your facial muscles. The designers claim all kinds of benefits from facial contouring to clearing up skin. My wife has one, I've played around with it, but I've never been disciplined enough or cared enough to keep up with it for months. When I've used it on the "contouring" setting it does get some of that sharper look I think you're going for, and it's relatively cheap and very low risk compared to other choices you have. I know there are also salons or spas or whatever that offer a higher-end version of the home product in microcurrent facials, which you could try without committing to purchasing one and using it all the time. Rescue Spa is the top end, but I don't think they're overseas.

I'll have to look into it, but my gut feeling is that it's not reliable. I can't see an obvious MOA from merely passing current through the face muscles!

My wife recommends botox, it is cheap and low risk. Find a reputable provider and get very little. Start small, most women do way too much which leads to the paralyzed look. What's nice is it just goes away if you use the right amount. My wife gets them biannually, it's no big deal, small amounts in the forehead. It'll be ten years before it approaches the cost of a real surgical procedure. Let it fade off completely between shots.

Good advice, send her my thanks. I believe masseter botox doesn't have much impact on facial expressions or wrinkles, the biggest side effect is usually decreased chewing strength and fatigue, and that usually wears off quick.

Also possibly PRP injections below the eyes are something to look into, according to Mrs. FiveHour.

Fillers are okay as a temporary solutions, but autologous fat grafts, especially from the buccal area, tend to be far more lasting. Is she recommending it for enhancing the upper cheek? I don't really have baggy eyes, or at least I don't care about them.

In general there's nothing wrong with trying to look better, and there are ways to do it, but especially as a man you absolutely must avoid the appearance of having had plastic surgery. For women there is at least a little leeway, in that obvious plastic surgery at least often has the effect of making her look slutty and sexually available, so it's not all bad. For men, visible plastic surgery is pretty much the worst thing possible, making a man look vain, effeminate, faggy, untrustworthy, and foolish. So start light and focus on the long game.

I see a dozen woman a day on the streets who I can tell have had work done. I struggle to name a single non-celebrity man. Most men opt for hair transplants as their foray into cosmetic surgery. The BFR and masseter botox don't leave any visible scars, and barring the risk of lopsidedness (unlikely with a skilled surgeon), I really doubt anyone could tell. They'd probably think I've lost weight and worked out, which to be fair, I'm doing alongside the procedure. I'm interested in a rhinoplasty, which would be harder to explain away, but I doubt anyone would particularly care.

I honestly think self esteem is a choice. Who cares what other people think? Only you can decide to feel inferior. As a man, who you are, what you do, and thirdly what you believe matters more. If you already have high educational attainment and social status, why do you care about how others perceive you? Seems like a hedonistic treadmill effect. Maybe this is the key to your everlasting happiness, but I doubt it.

In a vacuum? Who gives a shit?

When I'm trying to attract women, and looking to settle down and marry before the decade is out? Then what other people think of you matters.

While it's polite to underplay how much of a difference being attractive makes in real life, that's somewhere between cope and an attempt to make people feel better about themselves. I have a handsome younger brother. I'm facially average, but thankfully I'm tall. Even if love him, I can't help but feel a twinge of jealousy at how trivially he could have just about any woman he wants. When it turned out that he's borderline asexual, all I could do is groan at the waste. Some people need to hustle for a meal, others are just taking up space at a buffet table and not even trying the appetizers.

I think my self-esteem is at a reasonable place. I've got plenty to be proud about. Yet self-esteem is far from the only thing that matters. Someone with schizophrenia, bipolar during mania, or other personality disorders, might well have great self-esteem while their life falls apart.

Seems like a hedonistic treadmill effect. Maybe this is the key to your everlasting happiness, but I doubt it.

I'm not doing this to be ensure everlasting happiness. I'm doing this to be more attractive, primarily for the purposes of being more appealing to the opposite sex. That bit is durable, even if my happy afterglow fades.

No but I'm always worried about surgery because we can't know how good it can go and people many times end up getting multiple. If you go through with this, please do not get multiple things fixed, many never stop post their first though you are unlikely to be compulsive.

Working out is different in that it helps one inculcate other qualities beyond the physical appearance, Steve Maxwell is 72, has visible abs and still rolls, he wrote a blog post on this topic stating that in a good trainee, the discipline you showcase and the virtue you develop are reflected physically. Undergoing a decent regimen makes you stronger on the inside, it won't make you into a medieval knight, but it does make you better. Still I'm not the psychiatrist here or a very good or experienced physical culturalist.

No but I'm always worried about surgery because we can't know how good it can go and people many times end up getting multiple. If you go through with this, please do not get multiple things fixed, many never stop post their first though you are unlikely to be compulsive

You can still do a cost benefit analysis, and doctors/surgeons do those all the time. In this case, I need to weigh up looking significantly better versus maybe 2-3k USD and a 3% risk of complications. Given the obvious benefits of being more handsome, I'm willing to take the gamble. I'm averse to more complex surgeries like jaw shaving, and don't think they're warranted yet. I might consider a rhinoplasty in the future.

I wanted just buccal fat removed, but he made a strong case that I also have large masseter muscles, which makes my face squarer, and rounded with the fat added on. What drew me here was the relatively minimal invasiveness of the procedure, and to be fair, the things he's recommending adding on aren't big adds.

Working out is different in that it helps one inculcate other qualities beyond the physical appearance, Steve Maxwell is 72, has visible abs and still rolls, he wrote a blog post on this topic stating that in a good trainee, the discipline you showcase and the virtue you develop are reflected physically. Undergoing a decent regimen makes you stronger on the inside, it won't make you into a medieval knight, but it does make you better. Still I'm not the psychiatrist here or a very good or experienced physical culturalist.

I've started working out again, and intend to stick to it! It's comparatively low hanging fruit, and I'll grab what I can.

You're the transhumanist; off you go to self-modify at once!

I mean, my advise would be to just live with your face, which probabl, isn't that bad to begin with, but I dom't suppose you're the target audience for that.

I was considering that I'd go on a minor rant about transhumanism and better living through medicine in my original post, but I'd risk becoming a walking stereotype or one-trick pony haha. Evidently, it wasn't even necessary with my reputation.

My facial features are average. When I'm well groomed and dressed up, I'd dare call myself a 7/10 on a genuine gaussian curve, i.e 70th percentile for Indian men. If I'm not trying? 5-6/10. I have other appealing characteristics, but I only look decent enough for it to not sway the scales either way, positively or negatively.

This is adequate. It's not ideal. My younger brother lucked out on the genetic lottery, and could probably work as a model. I've seen the very obvious differences in how women act around him, and think "Lord, I've seen what you've done for others, and want that for myself."

I could probably go through the rest of my life without plastic surgery, and do fine. I'd have to work out harder, lose more weight, but there's only so much that can do. Yet, I think this is an intervention with positive expected value, if I can bump myself up ten percentile points for a few thousand USD, I struggle to think of anything better. The risks, while present, aren't that bad.

In a frenzy of self-improvement, I'm hitting the gym like it owes me money, and ordered some semaglutide to boot. My transhumanism isn't lip service, I put my money where my mouth and surrounding fat is.

I'm not particularly keen on semi-annual injections into my face, but I think it's worth a shot.

I'd consider getting a second opinion to make sure there isn't some 'one and done' permanent surgery available rather than this SaaS (Surgery as a Service) ongoing maintenance payment.

Botox just works that way. I'm not sure I'd consider it a surgery in the first place. The others should, at least in ideal circumstances, be one and done. While I'm far from a plastic surgeon, I think his points were reasonable.

I came out of it with a relatively positive impression of the surgeon, he seemed quite prudent and even suggested that I take time to think this through. Unfortunately, I'm flying back to the UK soon, and it's going to cost me an order of magnitude more. For what it's worth, his credentials are impeccable, so I'd struggle to find someone else in the time frame I'm working under.

All good points. Why not give it a go then? If its low risk (you've done a credential check) and affordable you can give it a trial and see if you like the results.

I probably will. It's certainly much cheaper in India versus what it would be in the UK. The buccal fat removal is permanent (without fillers or transplants to reverse it), but I can always forego the botox in the future.

Of course you might end up looking weird. I'm guessing these places have pics of their previous work? A former colleague had a vanity-driven surgery to suck fat out of his baggy (in his mind) eyelids. But because he has serious sleep issues and his genius response to this was just to begin taking Ambien, he looks now like a guy with two black eyes about a week into healing. This is post-surgery.

Don't mind me, though, I'm generally adamantly against cosmetic surgery to begin with.

He's just about as credentialed as one can desire for a plastic surgeon, I believe he trained at Harvard. He also showed me several cases with before and after photos, and I was impressed by the results. Of course, they don't show off the botch jobs..

Cosmetic procedures vary in their risk, buccal fat removal is safe as it goes, with a pooled risk of complications of around 1-3%. That covers both minor and major issues. I'm not as up to speed on the reimplantation of the fat or the botox, but from first principles, they're probably not any worse. All the incisions are inside the mouth, which means no visible scars. Not much bleeding, so the risk of haematomas or infection are rather minor. That's ignoring the risk of failure or non-ideal results. Buccal fat naturally goes away with age, so if overdone, can leave you with sagging cheeks or jowls. I can consider that a problem for another few decades down the line, it can be fixed.

At the end of the day, it's up to one's personal risk appetite and how content they are with their appearance.

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