site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 5, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

105
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Cross post: (rdrama):

Title: Most r-slurs still don't understand one of the central points of rick and morty.

THEY ARE ALL UNLOVABLE ASSHOLES! YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO ROOT FOR THEM! (Spoilers ahead)

  1. Jerry - would likely sacrifice his family to save himself. Had no trouble abandoning his original family to live with his accidental dimension family. He also crashed a plane full of people in that one episode. He is a stupidity based WMD who doesn't even realize the damage he caused.

  2. Summer - Pretty much a sociopath. Only cares about family to a degree, would gladly perv on hot guys. Has no qualms killing aliens. Doesn't care about how much destruction Rick has ever caused. She got high on planets that were about to die. Her whole personality is saying," whatever." Then stabbing you with a kitchen knife before going back to texting on her phone.

  3. Beth - If Summer is a wannabe sociopath then Beth is a legit sociopath. Only thing maintaining her humanity is likely her family. As a child she only ever had Rick make things for her that would hurt other people. Is self centered and will accept anyone in the world who will kiss her ass and flatter her. Hasn't been seen actively murdering anyone so far and is likely the most normie competent person in her family. Still shrugged off her planet getting destroyed. Wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice Morty to save Summer.

  4. Morty - Over the seasons he grows more psychopathic every season. He has destroyed at least two alien civilizations on screen that I remember, and likely has caused way more suffering off screen. Every season his conscience grows smaller when it comes to anything that's not his family. Will definitely murder you in your sleep for Rick. No longer hesitates when murdering people who cross him. Never came back to save his Cronenberg family. Only Jerry survived and Survivor Jerry called him out on it.

  5. Rick - Rick the worst of them all. Left his entire planet on groundhod day settings but forgot to turn off aging. Accidentally got back and was at least decent enough to end their suffering before leaving. That's Earth one he killed. In season 1 or 2 he accidentally cronenberged another Earth before leaving. That's two Earth's destroyed. In the latest season episode his little experiment got released and destroyed the entire Earth. That's three Earth's he has destroyed due to his fuckups. This isn't even counting all the countless planets, species, and probably even universes he has destroyed. Rick is basically the closest thing to an Eldritch abomination in human form any media has ever had. His morality has zero connection to other humans, he sees things on a scale so huge that entire realities become irrelevant. He is an inventor who could create anything but his final legacy is that of destroying realities. Multiple hell's have overflowed with the number of dead his actions have sent there. Rick is a pure evil to anyone who experiences his touch that is not a friend, a group of friends that are barely a dozen lifeforms against the trillions he has likely killed so far easily.

Every season they make the family do even more horrible things, and each time the r-slurs and spergs cheer. At this point it's as if the creators are just trying to see how fucked up and cruel they can make the actions of the family before the audience finally decides that yes, these are clearly not rolemodels or anybody to look up to, but that moment never comes. That moment likely will never come, because for that moment to come there has to be some self awareness, some capacity to self reflect, and perhaps the success of Rick and Morty for all the wrong reasons is the final proof, that this country has lost its way, and there is nothing left except mindless consumption followed by death.

  • -39

I've watched a lot of R&M, but only because my enjoyment just barely outweighs my disgust for the show and its characters. And even then not always, there are times when I've had to turn off the TV because the episode was just too disgusting/crass/ugly/nihilistic.

Every season they make the family do even more horrible things, and each time the r-slurs and spergs cheer. At this point it's as if the creators are just trying to see how fucked up and cruel they can make the actions of the family before the audience finally decides that yes, these are clearly not rolemodels or anybody to look up to, but that moment never comes. That moment likely will never come, because for that moment to come there has to be some self awareness, some capacity to self reflect, and perhaps the success of Rick and Morty for all the wrong reasons is the final proof, that this country has lost its way, and there is nothing left except mindless consumption followed by death.

I don't think it's because people don't have the capacity to reflect. They can, they just subconsciously stop themselves from doing it because people under 40 are heavily irony-poisoned and can't handle sincerity. One hypothetical reflection could go something like this:

  1. Rick is an immoral, egotistical, cynical nihilist

  2. It's a bad thing to be an immoral, egotistical, cynical nihilist

  3. Immoral, egotistical, cynical nihilists are not role models or heroes; we should not emulate them or cheer for them

  4. All the R&M characters are like that

  5. Why am I watching this show about evil depressing people

  6. I'm going to watch something more edifying

I don't think most viewers can get past step 1 because step 2 requires making a judgement which it totally lame and uncool and, why are you taking it so seriously bro? And anyway (here come the rationalizations) it's just a cartoon, and what's wrong with portraying imperfect and broken** people? Aren't we all broken to some degree? Should we only portray normal and healthy people?

I have an undeveloped thought about how a lot of modern TV is just the evil twin of 1950s black hat/white hat cowboy movies. Back then the good guy was squeaky clean and always beat the bad guys by virtue of his superior courage and moral rectitude. It was all very "just world." But now, with shows like R&M and GoT it's not more nuanced, it's just an inversion of "just world" into "unjust world." Everyone is evil, sadistic, cowardly. The good are crushed by the bad. Fans try to tell me that it's full of nuance, but I'm sure you could tease nuance out of a John Wayne film if you tried hard enough.

**I can't stand the word "broken" the way it's used to describe moral failings or "traumas," but that's a rant for another post.

I appreciate you taking the time to send the reply. Thank you.

I'm sure you could tease nuance out of a John Wayne film if you tried hard enough.

Have you ever watched The Shootist? Wayne's last film, and since he was more or less typecast as an actor in/for Westerns early in his career, despite trying other roles, you can't really blame him for sticking to what worked.

I haven't, thanks for the recommendation.