This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I now interrupt your regularly scheduled WWIII/Nothing Ever Happens to ask a question:
So, the Bike discussion down below generated a lot of angst and heat, so I'd like to poll The Motte on our driving habits a bit (in the CW thread because I do fear we are going to get some strong feelings).
How do we feel about the following:
You should turn on your turn signal every time you switch lanes or otherwise would be expected to use it, even if nobody is around.
Stop signs and red lights need to be fully stopped at, even if nobody is around and you know there isn't a red light camera.
Speed limits should be followed to the letter when possible.
The left lane is for passing only, and also, if you are in that lane and not passing and someone cuts you off or rides your bumper, that is fine.
If someone does not make room for you and you need to come over (and properly signaled) you can cut them off guilt free.
I can break some of these rules (or others) but other drivers should not.
Any other possible driving scissor statements?
If you'd like to be mad at me: Yes, Yes, No, Yes with qualification, Yes, No.
The point of the turn signal is to signal, it's pointless to do when nobody's around so if you're completely certain, there is no need. It's hard to be completely certain however, so lean on doing it all the time to build habit.
Same here, unless you're truly in the middle of the desert, these exist to regulate traffic and force you to look at potentially dangerous intersections, so lean on stopping unless you have good reason not to.
Speed limits are one of the stupidest conventions we have when it comes to traffic. Everyone seems to agree that it's better and safer to drive at the speed of the traffic, and nobody actually drives at a comfortable margin away from the speed limit so following the letter of the law actually puts you in danger.
Given this arised somewhat naturally out of the speed limit setup, I'm not sure if there's a better way to deal with this than what everyone's doing: driving safely most of the time and trying to abide by the law whenever cops or radars are around.
No limit autobahns and cops that stop you when you're truly being reckless doing 300+ and treating the road like a racetrack would probably be better, but those require a level of trust most non-germans can't afford.
If you're on the left lane and not passing you're an asshole. But just because people are assholes don't mean you should endanger your life to teach them a lesson. Never pass from the right unless that's the most safe thing you can do in that situation.
If you're not in the right lane and you need to cut off people, you're just not driving properly. Don't be an asshole, don't endanger people, wait for the next exit.
Kant is unimpeachably right about traffic laws. All driver ethics must be universalizable insofar as it applies to public roads. I would accept people breaking the laws only in a true emergency (life and death sort of deal), so I would only do so in such.
A common story element among those with poor awareness: "I was driving along, then this car comes out of nowhere and..." No, aliens didn't teleport a car next to you. The car drove to that location and you weren't paying enough attention to note blind entry points and/or track their approach. (also, you didn't realize that the story would cast you in a negative light).
Signalling 100% of the time is the way to go, for exactly the reasons you laid out.
Signalling turns more or less all the time is probably good for this reason -- but you should not be changing lanes unless you capital-K Know that there is nobody in your path.
I'd much rather be in the habit of double-checking my 'blind' spots everytime I change lanes than be in the habit of signalling and then pulling right into the car next to me that I didn't check for if he doesn't take evasive action -- which seems like a pretty common freeway habit these days.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link