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Culture War Roundup for the week of December 5, 2022

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I think the whole demographic question (ie. what happened to the prewar Jewish population) is the crucial question here, much moreso than the concentration camp doors or camp memoirs etc., but this is also a month old subthread so it's probably not a good place to discuss such issues.

It is mostly intended as feedback to SS - in case they are interested why normies like me react to them as they react.

(especially as typical reaction may be based in the end on it, even if ends phrased as "go away")

I think the whole demographic question (ie. what happened to the prewar Jewish population) is the crucial question here, much moreso than the concentration camp doors or camp memoirs etc., but this is also a month old subthread so it's probably not a good place to discuss such issues.

Yes, the revisionists do have answer. Here is the CODOH reply to mainstream historians. You see that they agree that holocaust happened, only Stalin instead of Hitler was the perpetrator.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=29

Walter N. Sanning: The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry

Before the Second World War, Eastern Europe was the demographic center of World Jewry. After the war, however, only a fraction of it was left behind. What happened?

The “Holocaust,” of course, most will say.

The author of this book did not stop there, though, but thoroughly explored European population developments and shifts mainly caused by emigration as well as deportations and evacuations conducted by both Nazis and the Soviets, among other things. The book is based mainly on Jewish, Zionist and mainstream sources. It concludes that a sizeable share of the Jews found missing during local censuses after the Second World War, which have so far been counted as “Holocaust victims,” had either emigrated (mainly to Israel or the U.S.) or had been deported by Stalin to Siberian labor camps.

Anatoly Karlin predicted that this line will become official Western history line in 21st century as Second Cold War heats up. We will see.

edit: links added

I have, actually, read the Sanning book, and found it, to put it mildly, underwhelming. It's essentially a series of it-just-so-happenses - it just so happens that the Polish demographical data on local Jewish population was vastly overcounted without either the Poles or the occupying Germans catching on to this, it just so happens that once this is established the same overcount can be expected to apply on other Eastern European nations as well, it just so happens that out of that population a larger-than-assumed share left for Soviet Union and the Soviets then deported/killed them (even though Soviet sources don't show such deportations and deaths - sure, such sources became available after the Sanning book was written, but that's no excuse for us to ignore them), it just so happens that there was a vast Jewish wave of emigration in the 30s to other countries not shown in official data etc.

And once you add all the it-just-so-happenses together, presto - the numbers advocated by the revisionists! Data massaging would be putting it lightly - and in many cases the data is essentially based on just the sort of testimonials, memoirs and what amounts to guesstimates by individual figures that revisionists don't generally consider to be valid (ie. the idea of Soviet deportations is justified by referring to several testimonies made in front of US House Select Committee on Communist Aggression) in establishing a Jewish genocide by Germans.

Beyond that, though, has there even been an attempt from the revisionist camp to make a similar demographic analysis post-Sanning, taking all the new data (methods of estimating populations in cases where demographic data is considered undertain, post-Soviet archives etc.) into account? If not, it speaks volumes that on this crucial field all that there seems to be is this one book from decades ago, while the general effort of the revisionist sphere seemingly concentrates on individual memoirs and technical camp details, and such.

Also, Karlin's predictive abilitites have not exactly shown their worth in 2022, regarding, well, most aspects of the Russian invasion and its presumed successes.

Also, Karlin's predictive abilitites have not exactly shown their worth in 2022, regarding, well, most aspects of the Russian invasion and its presumed successes.

Karlin was wrong together with the whole world. Everyone from Putin to Biden, from CIA to OSINT twitter expected replay of 2014 Mosul or 2021 Kabul.

Russian maskirovka worked perfectly, everyone saw the manly recruitment videos full of brick smashing and bear wrestling stunts and believed in world's second super power.

Was there anyone notable who predicted that Russians will disastrously fail to defeat Ukraine?

Except our commenter Ilforte/ @DaseindustriesLtd ?

https://old.reddit.com/r/TheMotte/comments/t0cnbx/ukraine_invasion_megathread/hyduv1l/

We're probably not. Kiev is not Baghdad, Ukraininans are not Iraqis (no offense to Iraqis). Last of all, Russians are not Americans.

Assuming that the goal is regime change in Moscow and discrediting of Russians on all possible levels, we have to commit a lot more pointless murder and destruction and then lose. So far, Ukrainian performance demonstates both goals are achievable.

Let's see how my conspiracist analysis fares against your common-sensical one.

https://old.reddit.com/r/TheMotte/comments/sxnftk/culture_war_roundup_for_the_week_of_february_21/hy70oxd/

Не всё. There are some very correct words and allegations thrown in, some correct analysis. Alas, there is no genocide in Donbass, at least nothing that deserves of the name, so it is a cynical pretext, validating everything that Americans were saying about this issue. As is the case of our broader WWII-inspired propaganda, narrow like a T-34 vision slit. It's not even a very good propaganda because it doesn't resonate with the people any more.

I don't have much to say. This is a crime against Russia and against Slavs in general. And if he believes his bullshit about freeing Ukrainians from the Junta or whatever, he's in for a suprise and it'll be even more of a fucking disaster for us than a regular war would have been, and I wonder who supplied him with info all this time.

If he doesn't, I shudder to think of what actually moves him now, near the end of his life, and whom he serves. Not my people, that's for certain. He never cared much about that.

Sure, a lot of people (me included) expected Russia to do much better against Ukraine than it did. Karlin did out of his way, though, to predict that serious Ukrainian resistance would last a week and that of course Ukrainians wouldn't fight back in an insurgency because they're "hipsters in rainbow masks who use their cell phones every hour", which goes rather a bit farther than your usual Russian overestimation prediction.