This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
So the Bezos-Sanchez wedding took place, and by all accounts it was exactly as overblown, tacky, and vulgar as anyone's little heart could desire. I haven't watched any of it myself, so why am I mentioning it in the Culture War thread?
Well, because Tina Brown commented on it, and it's at least tangential because we've often discussed on here "what do women want/dating apps/men get the rough end of the stick in divorce/other such delightful War of the Sexes fodder".
I get the impression that Tina wasn't on the guest list so there may be an element of sour grapes here, but in general I think I agree. Jeff Bezos, fourth richest man in the world (depending on the day and the ranking) could have pretty much any woman in the world he wanted. So, who did he blow up his marriage for and before we get into the complaining about his wife taking him to the cleaners, it was he who caused the divorce (actually, divorces because his inamorata was also married at the time)?
The woman next door, a triumph of grinding determination to keep her figure through diet, exercise, and plastic surgery. She managed to find a classy wedding dress so kudos for that, as well as showing off the results of all that effort.
Back to Tina's commentary:
Ouch. But also, yes. What am I trying to say here? Mostly that the next time there's yet another post about reversing the fertility decline by putting obstacles in the way of women going to higher education, steering them to marrying early, and good old traditional 'the man is the head of the house and women should work to please their husband and that includes sex whenever and however he wants it', remember this. Male sexuality is a lot simpler than female sexuality. Jeff could have destroyed his marriage for a nubile twenty-something with naturally big assets, but he went for tawdry 'sexy' with the trout pout and plastic boobs (though once again, I have to salute her commitment to starving and exercising in order to keep a taut muscle tone). It's not much good to criticise women for being shallow in the dating market when the fruits of success are to dress like this and hook your own billionaire.
Lauren Bezos is not exactly my cup of tea aesthetically, but she’s probably really fun to be around. She’s also likely pretty smart, or at least smarter than most other women. She’s a helicopter pilot, for one.
Jeff is also extremely white trash coded, and has a very strange apparent short man complex. “Hey look at my hot wife with her huge tits and huge ass and huge lips and she gets all these things out for the world to see all the time when we’re in public” is pretty normal for a man his age who just went through a divorce. He is human, just really rich.
The trashiness is the guilty pleasure. Here's a guy wealthy enough to have his own real rocket set to play with, and this is who and what he spends that money on.
I don't know enough of Sanchez' character to know if she's fun to be around. I think I took agin' her (a) for the busting up of her own and Bezos' marriage and (b) by the Wikipedia account, she does seem to have moved on from one guy to a better guy all through her public dating life; this may be purely coincidental but it can also, on an uncharitable reading, be planned - as soon as a better prospect heaves into view, dump the current one.
i - has relationship with American football player (I don't know enough about American sports to know how famous he is) while she's an entertainment reporter. They have a child in 2001 but the relationship ends sometime after that.
ii - gets married in 2005 to Hollywood agent and founder of a talent agency, I'm presuming he is at least as rich and successful as her former boyfriend. This also seems like a good move career-wise if you're in the entertainment/TV business, but what do I know? They have two children.
iii - as part of husband's business, they meet Jeff Bezos and become friendly. In 2018 possibly she and Bezos start an affair, which eventually comes to light and results in 2019 divorces for Bezos and Sanchez from their respective spouses. The affair becomes public knowledge after being leaked via a story in the National Enquirer involving Bezos' texts to Sanchez, as well as nude selfies (if there's anything I don't need to see, it's nude selfies of Jeff Bezos) and there's some hysteria on his part as he accuses everyone from the government on down of being out to get him. There's an investigation into who leaked, but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere (though some speculate that 'friends of Sanchez' leaked it. If I'm being cynical, getting your 'friends' or arranging to have it leaked would be one way for Sanchez to motivate Bezos to dump MacKenzie and make her the new official squeeze). Another accusation was that her own brother leaked it, and had been paid to provide photos of the couple canoodling.
Not very edifying, however you slice it, not to mention whatever the effect of all this was on her three and his four children. However, now at last she is Mrs. Fourth Richest Man in the World, so it's all been worth it!
There are some people who simply cannot be trusted around most of the opposite sex. They’re usually at least moderately, although only very rarely exceptionally, attractive, but they have an intoxicating charisma and can seduce almost anyone. The archetypal siren, rake, Mata Hari, whatever. Only some variant of the Pence rule is going to protect you from them (if targeted).
I would like to meet these women, for research purposes. I know well some guys who would have sex with probably any woman who paid them even the slightest bit of attention. I also know guys who have absurdly finicky standards (or claim to.) I don't doubt your claim here but I've personally sailed through many siren-populated (if not infested) waters without earmuffs and been able to get through without diving overboard or crashing the vessel. Reflection suggests you're probably right, though. Maybe I've just been fortunate or the Matas Hari I've met have been either insufficiently charming or insufficiently motivated.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link