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Culture War Roundup for the week of December 12, 2022

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Elon Musk has suspended a slew of liberal journalists and pundits from Twitter. It is, as Benjamin Braddoc puts it, a red wedding for the liberal establishment. I initially believed that he was just the "controlled" opposition of the deep state, obviously he's stepped on way too many toes for that. This imo underscores an important truth to the ultra principled who believe in free speech absolutism and neutral institutions, the overton window won't shift the other way just to punish the "heretics" who've assailed this sacred virtue. Social media, our Frankenstein, has made it insanely easier for mob rule to influence culture (not that it wasn't already).

I still don't believe we're witnessing complete course reversal, but this could just be the first legitimate W for the right.

EDIT: It looks like he's lifting the suspension.

Definitely the biggest W for the right since Trump. If Elon can succeed in bringing "the press are regime shills, institutions are all controlled by progressives, progressives only care about who/whom" to the mainstream, then a lot of the hard work is done. All these institutions have going for them is credibility. Once it's gone, it doesn't come back.

At risk of mod intervention: does your "Mottizens are secret socialists" view even matter here? We all know that Congress is one of the least-popular things around, and yet, you'll notice that the institution continues to exist and has not been abolished in favor of an autocracy. You can probably get enough Americans to admit that they hate the media, enough to occupy every square inch of Capitol Hill, and yet it's probably not going to force the entire corporate media landscape out of business in a week. It doesn't matter how "Fake and Gay" something is, so long as it has inertia.

What does it practically mean for something to be un-credible? Maybe once upon a time, that meant the thing would lose, in rough order, trust, profitability, mindshare, and power. Nowadays, a social faux pas is just as much an opportunity for defenders to rise up as it is for critics to come out. The NYT will continue to be an entity whose lifeblood is money, regardless of how many "normal" Americans they turn off. Same with all other corporate media.

Sure, most people aren't so disconnected from reality, as you allude to. Doesn't matter, the people who set the tone of the national conversation are the ones least-connected to reality, whatever silent-majority-salt-of-the-earth Americans who make up the "real world" don't.

EDIT: Another thing: I sympathize with the idea you're getting at, that maybe all of this doesn't really matter, but as I've tried to point out in this comment, the few-and-insane sure seem to have more timeline-steering power than most people could ever hope to do. Writing for the Paper of Record is a small seed of changing the minds of the people who have the power to re-order society, to shift great monies around for whatever project they want to see, to possibly destroy the world. I said this in a thread about HBD, that it really doesn't matter, but on the other hand, for those who believe in it, it sure as hell looks like the people who hold the levers of power are poised to drive America off of a cliff--and given the sheer political, military, cultural, and economic power of America, that might as well be tantamount to driving the entire human race off of a cliff. So, this is to say that it doesn't matter, and yet it does at the same time.

does your "Mottizens are secret socialists" view even matter here? We all know that Congress is one of the least-popular things around, and yet, you'll notice that the institution continues to exist and has not been abolished in favor of an autocracy.

First, it's not that the motte is full of "secret socialists" it's that the motte is overwhelmingly secular, progressive, and politically left wing. Yes, there is a difference. More specifically my view is that atheism is the default here. Being college-educated is the default here, A belief in the fundamental correctness of; "Science!", progress, identity politics, elite theory, external loci of control, Marx's model of class consciousness, Hegelian opprossor/opressed dynamics, and so on is the default here. Accordingly, anyone who doesn't already buy into all of these assumptions faces an uphill struggle if they want participate in the discussion.

What does it practically mean for something to be un-credible?

Well this is the 64,000$ question isn't it. One of the core cultural differences between "Red" and "Blue" America is how they think and talk about questions of "authority", letter vs spirit of the law, and similar issues. I know what being credible or (un-credible) means to me. I know what it means when I talk to my friends, family, and co-workers in meat-space, but it's equally clear that what it means to me is very different from what it means to most of the users here. The simple answer from my perspective is that "credibility" is the quality possessed by an "authority", and that someone becoming (or being) un-credible is analogous to loosing one's authority. However because of the issue I observed above about shared assumptions, or rather the lack there of, this probably ought to be unpacked a bit. The traditional conservative definition of "an authority" is the combined qualities of being listened to and believed, both being necessary requirements. Someone who is listened to and not believed is not credible nor are they an authority, and vice versa. Hence the classic formulation of the "appeal to authority". You might not trust me but you can trust so-and-so can't you?

The thing is that the model of authority I have just described is substantially different from the one that is typically used here. The average Mottizen seems to view authority and credibility as things that are bequeathed or imposed society's elites rather than as emergent properties. See @The_Nybbler's line about "The NYT has credibility because they are among the definers of credibility" above, or Scott's long-form posts in defense of Fauci (either removed or retitled at some point because I can't seem to find it atm) and on Bounded Distrust for examples this in action. The difficulty from my perspective is that the whole idea of there being a "definer" or "arbiter" of credibility outside the people being spoken to comes across as complete nonsense because I do not share the sort of underlying assumptions listed above.

At risk of mod intervention myself: The less charitable interpretation of both @The_Nybbler and Scott's posts is that it doesn't matter whether Dr. Fauci and/or the NYT have been demonstrated to be liars, we need to trust them because that is what intelligent rational well-educated people do, and you wouldn't want to be mistaken for someone who is not intelligent, rational, or well-educated would you? To which my impulse is to reply with an eye roll. My ego/perception of my own self-worth is apparently not as wrapped up in being perceived as intelligent or well-educated as theirs are.

First, it's not that the motte is full of "secret socialists" it's that the motte is overwhelmingly secular, progressive, and politically left wing.

I doubt that Mottizens would overwhelmingly vote for US Democratic party or UK Labour (or equivalent in other countries)

Yes, there is a difference. More specifically my view is that atheism is the default here.

Most of issues debated here are issues where existence of God/Supreme Being/Great Architect/Intelligent Designer is not relevant at all. When was the last time you saw here atheist/religious debate in the noughties style?

Being college-educated is the default here, A belief in the fundamental correctness of; "Science!", progress, identity politics, elite theory, external loci of control, Marx's model of class consciousness, Hegelian opprossor/opressed dynamics, and so on is the default here.

If only ;-(

When people here talk about Marx and Marxism, they mean in 99% cases "cultural Marxism" other than anything that Marx or anyone folowing him actually said and wrote.

I doubt that Mottizens would overwhelmingly vote for US Democratic party or UK Labour (or equivalent in other countries)

...What percentage of Mottizens do you think voted Obama? I would guess at a number north of 75%.

I doubt that Mottizens would overwhelmingly vote for US Democratic party

I know it's been a while since @tracingwoodgrains has done one of his surveys, but if we take them at face value the most common political affiliation on the motte is Democrats, followed by various 3rd parties. Mottizens voted overwhelming for Clinton in 2016 and gave a slight majority to Biden in 2020.

Most of issues debated here are issues where existence of God/Supreme Being/Great Architect/Intelligent Designer is not relevant at all.

I disagree.

If only ;-(

Look around. It might not be obvious to you because it's the water you're swimming in but from the outside it's not to notice.

Most of issues debated here are issues where existence of God/Supreme Being/Great Architect/Intelligent Designer is not relevant at all.

I disagree.

Well, in the last days, this space is mostly dedicated to Elon Musk and his Twitter escapades. What is the religious/biblical perspective on this current event? How could this issue be even explained in Biblical terms?

Poor man Sveneicus was watching from his window road to his town, and suddenly saw rich man Elonus on the road, traveling, as was his custom, on elephant covered with gold and jewels shining far away.

Sveneicus climbed to the roof and yelled loudly: "Rejoice, citizens! Great Elonus is coming to visit our town! What great honor for all of us!"

Elonus heard Sveneicus and was very displeased. "Stop it! I have many enemies, some of them might heard you and try to harm me. Do you want to have my innocent blood on your hands?"

Who is in the right, Elonus or Sveneicus? What would Jesus say to them?