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Notes -
To anyone who has discussed the issue with pro-Ukraine people.
Why do people support Ukraine fighting against Russia, with a strange militaristic fervor, instead of supporting surrendering / negotiating peace?
Anglin makes the points that:
-the war is severely impoverishing Europe due to high energy costs
-the war is destroying Ukraine ( population + territory / infrastructures / institutions)
-continuing the war increases the chances of a world war
Is it cheering for the possible destruction of Russia?
Something to do with the current leadership of Russia, anti-LGBTQ, pro-family policies?
Is it about the 1991 borders of Ukraine, issues with post-Soviet Union border disputes?
Notion that 'if we don't stop Putin now he will never stop no matter what'? Is it something about broadly standing up against aggression of one state vs another, supporting the 'underdog'?
The issue with that one which seems to be central to Alexander's March 22 post is that there isn't much that seems capable of stopping Russia.
Sending another 100k Ukrainians to the meatgrinder for that end seems a little bit harsh coming from people with very little skin in the game.
Just signaling what they are told is the correct opinion?
Is it about saving face, sunk cost at this point?
What would be the best case scenario for a Ukraine/State Department victory?
To my understanding, Putin is not the most radical or dangerous politician in Russia, and an implosion into ethnicity-based sub-regions would cause similar problems to the 'Arab Spring'. Chechens for example would not appear very West-friendly once 'liberated' from Russia.
Not only that, but economic crisis in Europe could generate additional security risks.
This is one of those perspective posts on people who say the west is wasting money https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/elon-musk-becomes-first-person-ever-to-lose-200-billion?leadSource=uverify%20wall
The money we put into Ukraine is half of the money one of our American dudes has lost the last few months. This is one of those hot takes that just exemplifies how much richer we’ve become than Russia. And a good reason why Ukraine would want to be one ally versus Russia.
Elon didn't actually lose money. If I created a company with a billion shares, sold one for $1, I'd be a billionaire. If that company folds the next day, my net worth would plummet. But there was no actual value lost.
With Ukraine, actual cash, goods, services, missiles, are being used up. The economic impact is people actually losing money, not making productive use of their labour, or that labour being diverted elsewhere. Infrastructure and lives are being destroyed. Time is being lost.
This will be a setback for Europe. Though it'll probably be a net benefit for America.
The important thing to remember is that the vast majority of those goods, services, missiles etc... were manufactured during the Cold war with the specific intent of holding off a Soviet invasion of Europe. Rather than being a waste or "setback", every Javelin fired at a Russian AFV and every Stinger fired at a Russian aircraft is an achievement of purpose. My take is that every neo-soviet killed by NATO arms in Ukraine makes Europe safer so praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
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I agree with your analysis. And these are just market values and not real losses (I’ve always thought Tesla was a great company but overvalued) but for a perspective thing I still think it makes sense.
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