This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
As a recovered simp, I can kind of comment
Dating is an extreme act of delayed gratification. Many men do not really enjoy the act of seducing women, which requires enormous investments in time and effort, and generally putting on at least a little bit of act rather than just being comfy and normal. Many men enjoy the thrill and payoff of a successful seduction but that is different from the act itself.
In irl seggs is good and all but with the latest gooning technology I would argue that hardcore gooning actually gives more seggsual stimulation than the real thing. As a result, the majority of single men do not actually have a lot of pent up sexual desire, because they are able to satisfy most of it with gooning. Incel types are different but their real problem is mental and not directly related to the physical act.
The remaining hole in these single men is therefore almost entirely social and barely physical. That makes them extremely susceptible to parasocial forms of entertainment. For lazy men, there is soooo much parasocial content available at the tip of their fingers. For free, you can listen in realtime to a girl whisper in your ear for hours, play games, talk about various topics, and depending on how popular the influencer is, even humor your messages, also for free. For a trifling amount of money - one dollar or less - you can buy her time to real your name and message, though not necessarily buy a thoughtful response. And of course, the big one, is that depending on the person, you can cheaply buy a certain level of girlfriend experience, either explicitly or unspoken. DMs, good night messages, even voice calls are all on the table. And for small time creators, it would actually be them, not paid chatters like is popular on OF.
For the content creator, it's pretty scalable, as it's relatively easy to simply manage chatting with a bunch of paypigs a few times a week to keep them on the hook. Creating the content to get them interested in the first place is relatively the harder part. For someone who enjoys creating the content, and doesn't mind listening to stinky old men ramble about whatever nonsense, it's actually quite an ideal gig.
For the simp stuck in the trap, it's extremely hard to get out. He already has gooning to satisfy physical needs, and one or several 20s women with perfect voices and decent intellect talking to him and giving him all the internet attention he needs. Even if he did want to go on dates, which he doesn't, he would likely be disappointed and disgusted by the women he meets. And don't forget that he's the one expected to do the seducing, which is something that he egirls don't need. From the logical intellectual perspective, the simp is a loser, only leaving the house to work and otherwise wasting away in his goon cave. But to the simp's reptile brain, he is living the ideal life, with constant seggsual stimulation and female attention.
Hard disagree. Sex has to be really bad before I would prefer to just crank my hog.
Also, why are you using algospeak? We're all friends here.
More options
Context Copy link
I agree, but I think this is mainly a result of our modern techno-dystopia. No one enjoys swiping right on hundreds of profiles just so we can "take whatever we can get" from the bottom 1% who swipe back at us. No one enjoys being the orbiter/reply-guy on social media. No one enjoys fighting for the attention of the one semi-hot woman at a party/bar/club when she's surrounded by men jockying for her attention, with a 10:1 ratio of men:women. Noone enjoys doing our best to make witty conversation while she just stares into her phone (or even worse, texting her while she takes 48 hours to reply "lol") . Noone enjoys going into some women's space like a yoga class/book club/knitting circle and feeling the suspicious stares and closed-off body language. Noone enjoys awkwardly shaking our butts to shitty hop hop at the generic dance clubs.
What I do enjoy is if I can actually meet a woman IRL and have some sort of real connection. It could be dancing, a good conversation, sharing a meal, anything really, as long as I can tell she's actually focusing her attention on me and feeling something from it. But modern life makes it so damn hard to get even that... one time I was a cocktail bar talking to a woman who was not very conventioanlly attractive, but she was still fun to talk to. I was having fun until she mentioned that she was surprised how many men were trying to talk to her, including much younger men. I was like... "look around, you're the only woman here, and there's so many single men here. Of course we all want to talk to you!" The single women are all at home hiding out on social media and I have to pay them if I want even digital attention.
All that said, I still kinda like paying women to hang out with me and give me attention sometimes, just to have that kind of "great date" experience even if it doesn't lead to seggs. They're just way better at entertaining men than any normal woman. So maybe it makes sense for this to be the modern division of labor.
More options
Context Copy link
The thing that seems to be missing in your description of physical and social needs is essentially non-sexual/quasi-sexual physical touch. I could probably go without sex in life, but not being able to cuddle, or romantically kiss, or hold someone as they fall asleep, or just sit on the couch, or caress someone's back or arms... well, I'd find that hard to bear.
Most people under discussion here barely experienced that. Don't known what they're missing.
More options
Context Copy link
That's why you get a body pillow of your oshi
I have tried this, but it does not actually work. Maybe I need to upgrade my daki to a DHR7000 or something, but most fantasy centers around the closeness, etc. rather than just fucking.
I have no idea how people do it directly to pictures; I just lay on the bed and read them for the articles, so to speak.
More options
Context Copy link
Not good enough, damnit, not good enough!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Uh, how common is gooning really?
Like regular masturbation, sure, real common. But I was under the impression gooning was some technologically driven different thing.
Technically it means people keeping themselves aroused with porn without ejaculating for 30mins to hours
Used also as a shorthand for people who use porn to jerkoff widely in excess of what nature would allow.
Wow, so "gooning" is like synonymous with "edging"? In that case I'm not sure if I've ever "gooned".
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
My understanding is that the physical release is generally controlled by physical stimulation, while visual and fictional materials can provide a massive dopamine hit without it. This allows consooomers to easily consume more and more material without experiencing a sudden and messy end to the process.
I don't have any direct evidence but expect that regular users will tend towards longer and longer sessions as a result of Pavlovian conditioning.
My question was about prevalence. Yes, any 14 year old has probably figured out regular masturbation but I thought gooning was something different.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I'd argue assigning the loser label is pretty far from the logical intellectual perspective. It presupposes that male social status (as per the standard of being able and willing to date) is axiomatically good without explicitly stating that axiom.
under what logic can the simp not be described as a loser?
Under the logic that winning and losing can only be defined in relation to criteria and the criteria of being successful in life are subjective. Yes, even the criteria that have to deal with reproduction and Darwinism and so on. These are all parts of the same reptile brain that makes the simp happy with his lot.
If you want an explicit ruleset that would define the simp as being better than the player, then "don't waste time and effort on getting the approval of others when a simpler lifestyle will do just as well for physical needs" is one. If only hunger could be sated merely by rubbing the stomach.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link