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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   25712 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 11, 2025

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I have a strong conviction that objective morality does not exist. The evidence against it is a vast, silent ocean; the evidence for it is a null set. I consider it as likely as finding a hidden integer between two and three that we've somehow missed.

It's rather ironic that your own choice of analogy willingly jumps into the thicket of the philosophy of mathematics. Perhaps you're just doing so unknowingly or just with a general lack of care, but that would indeed be apropos.

What sort of 'evidence' do you think one would gather to determine the status of mathematical objects? Is it empirical? Do you perform an experiment? Is that the means by which one 'finds' or, say, 'discovers' things like integers?

My own stance is that I am both a moral relativist and a moral chauvinist, and I deny these claims are contradictory.

I hate to do this, but last time we did this, you were unable to even explain what it is that those terms meant. Would you like to take another go at it?

I hate to do this, but last time we did this, you were unable to even explain what it is that those terms meant. Would you like to take another go at it?

Thank you for reminding me of that rather unpleasant experience. I would actually not like to take another go at it. Anyone wanting elaboration is welcome to read the thread.

Fair enough on the positive claim concerning meta-ethics. If you'd prefer to leave that one in incoherence, you can leave that one in incoherence.

Would you like to take a shot at your negative claim with analogy to philosophy of mathematics? Any sort of clarity or argument there?

No, I showed that my point was coherent, it is beyond me why you don't see that. It's not really my problem at this point.

Would you like to take a shot at your negative claim with analogy to philosophy of mathematics? Any sort of clarity or argument there?

Not with you, I'm afraid. @Primaprimaprima is far more pleasant to talk to, hence I am more than happy to discuss that in detail with them. You're welcome to read that thread and make of it what you will.

No, I showed that my point was coherent

We can just read the comments. You never told me what your terms meant, because you couldn't. Perhaps you missed my edit back then, even though I recall doing it quickly, so I'll repeat it here just in case:

Let's change the syntax to make it clear. Suppose you had said, "I know my values are just as blurf (or not) as everyone else's." Suppose I inquired as to what you meant by values being blurf or not, or multiple values being equally blurf. It's not really helpful to say that there is nothing objective about blurf. It still simply fails to tell me anything about what blurf actually means.

Not with you, I'm afraid. @Primaprimaprima is far more pleasant to talk to, hence I am more than happy to discuss that in detail with them.

I'm a pretty pleasant guy. What have I said that is not pleasant? I think you might be confusing a pleasant conversationalist with a pleasant conversation. Most people don't like conversations where large problems with their stated positions are brought to the fore. That's fair enough. But that's probably what you find displeasing, the clear and obvious feeling in your gut that you know your position has a problem, and that you don't know what to do about it. I sympathize; I've been there. Just a piece of advice, though; thinking that you're going to be able to avoid the problem by avoiding the person who points out the problem never works. Moreover, it's unMottely.

You know, I'm a person who has been described, in this very thread as:

I definitely don't have @self_made_human's endless energy for arguing here, but his takes tend to be quite grounded

Consider what that means when someone actually exhausts my patience. I think that says more about you than it does about me.

I'm a pretty pleasant guy. What have I said that is not pleasant

After all, even the most saintly are unlikely to like you very much if you say things along the lines of:

Now you're just throwing a hilarious Internet Shit Fit for having gotten called out on it. (About three comments! That's "for a while"! Mucho Internet Shit Fit...)

I'm sure you think you are very pleasant, and that you are a great conversationalist. I'm sure your mother thinks you're very handsome too.

Just a piece of advice, though; thinking that you're going to be able to avoid the problem by avoiding the person who points out the problem never works.

I think it works great. If I didn't have a firm commitment to not blocking anyone on this site, I would have blocked you a long time back. The next best thing is to ignore you, which is what I'm doing from now on. Being "unMottley" doesn't come at the cost of my sanity.

I'm sure you think you are very pleasant, and that you are a great conversationalist. I'm sure your mother thinks you're very handsome too.

Reported for antagonism.

Not because it's particularly bad (it obviously isn't), but because I hold you to higher standards! You are better than that.

Thank you? What am I supposed to do now, warn myself? Temp-ban myself? I believe that the Ancient Chinese have written on the topic, but I'll leave it in the hands of the other mods.

My suggestion: Just take in onboard as constructive criticism. Look, this isn't a big deal, as so often I'm just writing what comes to mind without thinking much about it.

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