This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Going off random internet comments I see, apparently the exact moment for political violence is precisely when you personally feel that you are being attacked by "the other side" and thus your belief justifies any and all response back. There is no need to question "Ok, maybe most of The Enemy isn't actually evil monsters?" or "Maybe my perception could be flawed" because our perception is never flawed and The Enemy is 100% evil monsters, and even when they say they aren't it's all pretend.
Is that true? Basically every single left wing politician and pundit has spoken out against the attack, and we don't even know the motive! I think Hanania put it best
I suppose an argument of revenge needs to ask itself if the Charlie Kirk killing is a fair response of the Minnesota Dem killing.
The anti political violence crowd, like me, has an easy answer to both, of course not. The "yes in case of revenge" crowd is gonna be struggling to explain why that is an exception. Or how far back do we go to find the start and who is originally responsible. Five years? Ten years? What's the limit and how was it chosen?
It's crude, but this dark humor is not particularly abnormal. People were making jokes about Paul Pelosi's beating being a gay lovers quarrel, and that one trans person a few months back who killed themselves jumping off a bridge had tons of memes made from 4chan and X. Just look at those replies, prominent names like Stonetoss even joined in. 9k likes for "Not a cell of value was lost. Rest in piss"
9/11 has been made of for years bipartisanly at this point by youth, I've seen plenty of memes and jokes about dead Gazans now, likewise dead Israelis are mocked too.
We had a sitting senator just joke about shooting journalists for "fake news" a few months back.
It's sad, but it's not justified to respond to dark humor and gross jokes with violence.
And in general the same way you don't jail or kill a murderer's kids and neighbors, it's also generally not justified to use political violence "back" against people who haven't done any. Individual actions, individual responsibilities.
You mean the same Dems who tried to shout down an attempt for prayer for Kirk in Congress? Or Ilhan Omar with Medi Hassan? How bout Liz Warren?
Let's approach this in good faith, is it possible they shot it down because attempts for prayers don't happen with other victims of gun violence? There's an argument to be made about the implications there, that his life is more important than the life of a kid who doesn't get it when they die.
And hey, that's exactly the point they said
Maybe you disagree there's an implication like that made with such an exception, or heck maybe you believe that children who get shot or military who die aren't deserving of prayer in the same way, but I hope you can understand the point at least.
Whatever the reasons that the Republicans of Congress have for not praying after other deaths, shouting people down while they are trying to pray seems awfully uncouth, at the very least?
I'd go so far as to say Just Not Done -- I don't personally pray over things, but if somebody wants to say Grace at dinner, I do bow my head and say Amen -- where are their damn manners?
Refer back to the point about implications being made regarding other victims of other tragedies if you elevate someone over them in a place like Congress.
Maybe the Democrats should start having prayer sessions for people involved in incidents that they think should be elevated then, instead of shitting all over other people's tragedies?
Where's the prayer for the high school students shot by a neonazi a few days ago? How about the officer who got killed by the antivaxxer CDC shooter? Are officers protecting our country dishonorable and undeserving?
Refer back to the point about implications being made regarding other victims of other tragedies if you elevate someone over them in a place like Congress.
That's the neat thing about praying -- you can pray for whomever you want!
If the Demcritters had asked for a prayer for those people, do you think the Repcritters would have shouted them down?
Again refer back to the point about implications being made regarding other victims of other tragedies if you elevate someone over them in a place like Congress.
Why does an officer who died protecting our society from an antivax shooter not deserving of the same response? Why are members of the military not honorable enough when they die for a public prayer in Congress?
If they want to pick and choose special treatment, we can ask them to explain why they don't pick our brave soldiers and boys in blue.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link