This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm not 100% sure if it's schizophrenia specifically, but Freddie de Boer actually is psychotic. Hence, I'm inclined to read the specious chaos theory as "his meds aren't working as well as we'd like" rather than "he's lying".
It is not schizophrenia, it is bipolar disorder. Psychotic episodes happen in bipolar sufferers during intense manic or depressive episodes, they aren't a constant companion for Freddie, his primary issues are mood related. Also anti-psychotics aren't a floodgate keeping the crazy at bay based on the dose. They block dopamine receptors, a better way to think of it is as telling the under siege town guards there is a ceasefire so they stop shooting at shadows.
More options
Context Copy link
I generally dislike commentary on FdB that boils down to "he's off his meds." He (with some justification) gets really sick of having that thrown at him.
That said, he does seem really... off lately, and that includes responding to someone posting a Substack article that made him mad (about... treatment for the mentally ill) by literally posting thinly veiled threats to physically assault the poster.
(I can no longer find the link. Possibly he came to his senses and deleted it.)
TBH, I only really said it because the accusation of deliberate obfuscation was thrown and I felt that that was even less charitable. Probably would have kept my suspicions to myself otherwise.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Link seems to be dead for me, but yeah I'm aware, hence my reluctance to outright dunk on him or declare him a lolcow. I appreciate that he still speaks his mind (if nothing else, he is a useful weathervane for a person disconnected from American politics) and do not shame him for being mentally ill, but I reserve my right to call out shoddy logic, Darkly Hinting and uh, generous epistemic leaps even if they're partly caused by said mental illness.
Galaxy-brained deflections are not exclusive to Freddie, although he is a fine example of it, so I think the patterns are still useful to nootice before consensus or "consensus" starts forming in earnest.
Yeah, the software mangled the URL and @FtttG supplied an unmangled version. Have submitted a bug report.
I'm all for noting that his use of chaos theory is specious and unhelpful, because it is. My point is strictly that "he actually believes that his invocation of chaos theory is super-deep and meaningful" is pretty plausible, where it wouldn't be for a normal person - "drawing wildly-different things into a nonsense Grand Theory" is a textbook psychotic delusion - and hence your apparent conclusion that he's deliberately blowing smoke there was suspect.
There are certainly people blowing smoke. I'm not even saying that Freddie never does it. But this particular thing doesn't smell like it to me.
More options
Context Copy link
I think this is the relevant link: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/my-response-to-daniel-bergners-new
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link