site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   32718 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 23, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Something no one ever points out is that the person organizing all these news “events” is Ben Crump the civil rights attorney. He pretty much makes or breaks cases and whether they become national news. Pretty much every famous case including Breonna Taylor, Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown etc have been represented by Ben Crump.

I particularly remember Ferguson because it was one of the first of these stories where the real-time coverage reached the UK. Initial press coverage focussed on the riots, the over-militarised response by Ferguson PD to the riots, and the fact that Ferguson PD lost control of the situation and State troopers had to be called in. The media coverage didn't start being about the personal qualities of "gentle giant" Michael Brown until Crump arrived.

It is also worth pointing out that the Tyre Nichols case happened two weeks ago, but is only hitting the news now because the PD realised that Crump was going to subpoena the surveillace video and wanted to get out in front of him.

Really? I've never even heard of him, that's crazy. The worst thing is that knowledge of this fact would probably dial down the heat of the culture war.

Yah it’s really crazy that even right-wing media doesn’t ever talk about him but he is basically the one of the most influential people in America since 2014.

Ranting about Soros hasn't turned down the heat anywhere else in the culture war.

You haven't? He's pretty well known.

The worst thing is that knowledge of this fact would probably dial down the heat of the culture war.

I doubt it. He isn't (just) some shadowy figure manipulating things from behind the scenes. He's front and center in the news conferences for all of these incidents.

He has only been mentioned once before in the entire history of the motte, and that was in relation to desantis and his ap course. Including when we were on reddit. This is the only place I read about those things because of toxoplasma. News conferences in particular are generally entirely substance free and more about emotional manipulation.

Not sure how you’re searching, but I’ve certainly mentioned him before on /r/TheMotte, e.g. here

He’s under-discussed, certainly. But it’s not accurate to say he’s never been mentioned

IIRC there were also discussions at some point of the indie documentary film The Trayvon Hoax which prominently features Crump (accusing him of witness tampering), a controversy regarding theaters backing out of airing it, and the resulting defamation suit against Mr. Crump by the filmmaker

Ah shit, I only did a google site: search on reddit for "Benjamin Crump", not Ben Crump. Sorry for that. Also I wish I had read that post when you posted it, because it was excellent.

No worries and ty! Glad he’s being discussed more

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats