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PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   20417 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 6, 2025

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Given the social consequences of being a Santa-isn’t-real edgelord child, I think it may be poor parenting to spill the beans too early.

Before having kids I thought I was definitely not going to entertain Santa delusions, now I definitely am. Looking out for their social wellbeing is one of my big value-adds. Kids can’t anticipate how bad it would be for them to be generally whiny, smelly, angry, etc.

At what ages does one normally outgrow Santa belief in America? I never believed in Santa (I recall being told around the age of 4 or 5 and finding it absurd, especially since our family didn't have a chimney), but also, Korea didn't have as much of a Santa culture as America. I moved to America in 1st grade, and I don't recall my non-believing of Santa ever being something that even came up, so I figured that, by grade school age, kids had outgrown it. But it sounds like that's actually not the case?

8-10. Most parents put considerable effort into the appearance of "Christmas magic". There's an adorable age where they're old enough to question, but afraid of what they might find out. They'll test their parents and gossip among themselves. But my own were afraid that if I knew that they knew, then I might not bother with the presents ritual, so they pretended to believe longer. And once it was explicit, they solemnly accepted the responsibility to not break the kayfabe for their younger cousins.

If it's something you've been told since before you can walk, it takes a decent bit of development to get to the point where you notice the fact that it's completely incongruent with everything you know about the rest of the world. In a way, it's a method of gently teaching children that the only real magic is what we do ourselves.

8-10. Most parents put considerable effort into the appearance of "Christmas magic". There's an adorable age where they're old enough to question, but afraid of what they might find out. They'll test their parents and gossip among themselves. But my own were afraid that if I knew that they knew, then I might not bother with the presents ritual, so they pretended to believe longer. And once it was explicit, they solemnly accepted the responsibility to not break the kayfabe for their younger cousins.

This is the point where the potential harm is. If a child spends 1-2 years thinking "Santa breaks my model of reality but I can't think deeply about this because the presents will stop coming" then they are learning to suppress curiosity for fear of punishment.

FWIW, I understood that Santa was the same type of being as God and Jesus*, as opposed to the same type of being as my Mum or the Queen, as early as I remember having complex thoughts - certainly before age 6. Having been taught about Santa therefore made me less likely to accept Christianity as an older child (whether this is good or bad is unclear). I had Santa, God and Jesus in the same bucket as Mickey Mouse and Peter the High King of Narnia by the time I was 9.

* My parents were not Christian, but the local primary school was a C of E school so I was partially raised Christian

This is the point where the potential harm is. If a child spends 1-2 years thinking "Santa breaks my model of reality but I can't think deeply about this because the presents will stop coming" then they are learning to suppress curiosity for fear of punishment.

No way man, I think it's a great practice. You institute a society-wide gaslighting conspiracy toward children that involves nothing but generous rewards, but which is so fantastical that they're bound to figure it out eventually, and then you let nature take its course. Everyone learns that sometimes everyone else is just bullshitting, even if they really do mean well.

I wish we put this much effort into teaching everyone other equally important lessons.

Plus there's the part where you realize the conspiracy and then get to join in on it. I mean that feeling as a kid is the closest thing to being invited to join the Illuminati that any of us are likely to get. You've gained sufficient wisdom that the adults require your collaboration.

I mean that feeling as a kid is the closest thing to being invited to join the Illuminati that any of us are likely to get.

Well you know, until the other big secret everyone pretends to believe, you know the one I'm talking about.

I'll bite, which one? Or did you deliberately not specify for the sake of the bit?

I won't go into specifics but most people figure it out by their late 20s

I won't go into specifics but most people figure it out by their late 20s

I'm kind of stupid, can you DM it to me? I am fairly certain I failed to figure it out.

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