This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yer a Nazi, Harry! or, the alleged anti-Semitism in the work (particularly in the latest video game) of J.K. Rowling.
I think by now we are all aware of the ruffled feathers over J.K. Rowling, most heinous TERF of our time (if I believe all the gnashing of teeth and wailing). I'm going to immediately swerve off on a tangent to register my amusement about, ironically in view of where it's all happening, Nicola Sturgeon's attempt at No True Scotsman in the latest case of "sex offender decides he's really a woman so he should not be put in man-jail but in woman-jail where it'll be perfectly safe to put him, even though he still has a working dick and raped two women".
Okay, I've had my sardonic laugh, on to the main point of this rambling.
So the Gringotts goblins are supposed to the be an anti-Semitic caricature of Jews, because "hooked noses, love money, put it together yourself". While I wonder how it is that the brave defenders of minorities leaped to the conclusion "these beings love money and have certain features - THAT MEANS THEY'RE JEWS!!!!", I realise that the proponents of this don't care if it's true or not, because any stick will do to beat the dog. People who may not be convinced that Rowling is Female Hitler by the trans stuff may be convinced by "she's anti-Semitic" and "she's pro-slavery" (the house elves, who if you look at their depictions in the movies and games look more akin to the goblins than any other species. Are the house elves Jews, as well? Why not, may as well throw that into the pot).
I'm going to address the question "are the goblins meant to be Jews?" by yelling, once again, you durn kids get off my lawn. I don't want to blame Americans if it's not their fault, but this kind of thing - the whole progressive angle of antifa and the rest of it- is largely driven as an online phenomenon (I'm not going to talk about offline real world influences) by the stereotypical dyed-hair college kid types and from an American angle. This means that they have no idea what references in a British context mean or whence they are derived. Also, being young, they will never have heard of this reference that I am going to quote, since it's before their time.
I propose that the Gringotts banking goblins are not a reference to Jewish stereotypes but to the Gnomes of Zurich and to gnomes in general. When the Harry Potter books first came out, there was a lot of speculation about alchemical references, and even a Grand Plan, in the books. While I'm not sure about that, I think that as a fellow Gen Xer from the British Isle who is bookish, she would have had at least a nodding acquaintance with such references like myself.
Enter the Gnomes.
There's a series of influences that lead me to think the Gnomes came from the inspiration detailed below.
(1) The Gnomes of Zurich. She would have heard such references the same way and the same time I did, first as children growing up and then in 2010 when there were yet more banking crises:
(2) Gnomes via our boy Paracelsus (this is where the alchemical references come in):
(3) A recurring joke in "Private Eye" magazine:
(4) This one is pure speculation on my part, but since the name "Gringotts" has various theories as how it was derived, this is as good as any. When I read the name "Gringotts" for the first time, it reminded me of the German greeting Gruss Gott which is originally from Austria, Southern Germany, and the mixed land of Northern Italy/bits of south Germany/bits of Switzerland called the South Tyrol:
The Tyrol and Tyrolean are terms associated over here with Switzerland as well as Germany, mostly from the 19th century:
Which brings us handily back to our boy Paracelsus, inventor and populariser of the term "gnome" (amongst others for elemental beings) who was - wait for it - Swiss!
So this ties up all the Swiss/German influences behind the word "Gnome" which I hope I have at least presented as an alternative to the "deliberate anti-Semitism by the TERF trans genocider" theory.
I thank you.
As long as we're on Hogwarts Legacy, this is pretty funny:
Presumably the 19th century Hogwarts dormitories will be sufficiently in line with modern perspectives on gender swapping that no one in-game will even mention that it's actually kind of weird that there's a huge guy with a deep voice that's hanging around the girl's dorm and calling himself a witch.
Some Vox hyperventilation on the topic is also eyerollingly amusing:
On the flip side, it's amazing how these sorts of things create fans for political reasons. Quite a few people that would have greeted the above paragraph with "read another book" seem enthusiastic about getting Hogwarts Legacy, presumably because that'll really stick it to the woke or something.
So... doesn't that mean racism, queerbaiting, lack of multiculturalism, fat-shaming, and upholding of the patriarchal structures results in people becoming Democrats?
I'm happy to defend the position that it does. They wouldn't be crying about it so much if it didn't.
deleted
I never got into the books. It seemed to me the people most into the books were democrats but that is probably confusing causality.
deleted
How many people in your friend group have had kids? I’ve found the trans stuff and education to be a giant redpill for my friends who are parents (and for my wife). It isn’t of course just trans but also generally lgbt stuff. Most are comfortable with gay or lesbians (or even trans people) but hate how much it is being pushed culturally.
That and covid has pushed a lot of those people into being DeSantis Republicans (at least amongst my cohort).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I'd agree with this, but the "read another book" thing is real. Harry Potter was referenced way too many times in law school than actually made any sense based on the quality of the material and its relatability to real life and the law (of which their system is nonsense stacked on nonsense).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Would you care to elaborate? People like nonbinary Vox writers frequently complain endlessly about things that don't actually impact them in any material way.
I mean, arguably the main difference between the classical left, and the woke left, is that they put less weight on material issues, and focus on culture more. If you buy media that they've decried, you're showing their blessing is not necessary to prosper as an artist, which increases the likelihood more artists will follow, which increases the likelihood of their grasp on culture slipping. That's why both sides are rallying the banners. It makes perfect sense, and I don't see how anyone can be so dismissive of it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link