This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It was shocking me in approximately that 2021-2022 period when I was re-entering the dating market. Now its just a default expectation (which sucks).
My criteria were pretty close to your stated ones. But something I came to realize is that a woman, in the current era, who does not have tattoos, with a low (less than 4) body count, ... they ALSO tend to be anxious/avoidant/flighty. Which explains why they aren't following the crowd/out partying/getting laid in the first place. They can seem ideal and even engaging early on and then disappear on you with little warning. Eventually the fear of commitment overrides the desire for companionship. The other issue I keep slamming into is women that check the boxes... but who are so focused on career/academics/family (even into their mid 20's!) that they genuinely don't have much time to date.
I'm considering a sincere dating blitz this year since literally the only real goal I haven't achieved for myself is finding a decent partner who will stick around.
But the whole thing about going on "a lot of first dates" is its necessarily taking a ton of time that I could be spending on things that actually convert into money or a finished product or actual fulfillment for me, rather than constant low-level psychic damage with the occasional spike of heartbreak.
My real hope is finding a decent 'filter' so those dates are at least with people who are in it with good faith and intentionality. I hate wasting time and money on a process that has a low success rate, my instinct is to search out ways to increase the success rate.
Last year a friend connected me with a single acquaintance of his who checked most of the aforementioned boxes at first blush, made it to three dates, which were all pleasant, then she moved back in with her parents for [reasons]. Fast forward a couple months, she meets a guy she knew from years ago while there, and they enter a relationship. I only learn of this when my friend relays the news. He was apologetic, but I told him it was actually the best dating experience I'd had in 5 years (he's married with kids, not his fault for not knowing the lay of the land).
The part that stings a bit is that this dude is a divorcee with two kids, and she just dove right into his arms. I can't even imagine what he offers over me, other than comfort/familiarity. There's that flightiness.
So looking for a 'fresh' start in the new year, but at a loss as to what channel I can try that I haven't already which would help ensure the women I match with meet that very basic floor of eligibility.
All else equal, it’d be business as usual for preselection. He has two kids, two datapoints demonstrating that some other chick has already bore his children.
More options
Context Copy link
Post selection.
Funny enough, this is the second young woman I've known in the past two years who ended up with an (older) guy who was divorced with a kid, given that she happened to know him from her past (read: she had a crush on the guy when she was in high school). Post-selection indeed. There was quite a bit more to it than that, though.
The other one actually married the guy.
In the current case, the lady appears to be enough of an improvement on his ex-wife that there might be an intentional jealousy play going on (also, he still has wedding photos with his ex up on his Facebook).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yeah I had a lot of experience with the sort of woman who's low body count and untattooed in the 2020s being some combination of Religious (which is fine but if I'm meh about a girl who doesn't believe in anything outside of marriage it's hardly worth pursuing), super insular or otherwise prone to being a gigantic flake. I got lucky with my now-wife since I was literally her first date on an app after she'd broken up with her previous singular partner after a longterm relationship due to him going full NEET Gooner, and in my case I feel like it's pretty plausible I wouldn't be here now with my daughter if I'd been 50 faces deep in the stack instead of the first one.
Either she'd have found somebody else solid enough, or like the majority of her long-term single friends, sisters and cousins that I've talked to she'd do the 'My dating experience is downloading Hinge for a week for a week-long period, having two dates and then uninstalling for 6 months to a year if neither of those suitors immediately blow her mind' loop that the majority of them seem to be stuck in.
Unfortunately true, but bless your luck on that. "Woman who just exited serious relationship b/c partner became unbearable but not abusive" is about the best pull you can expect these days. Proven ability to commit, and valid excuse for being back on the market.
Its semi-similar to how I met my ex. I had just gotten stood up for a date, we both happened to be online around 1:30 a.m., I managed to talk her into a date on the same day, and she kept showing up.
If someone pops up on a dating app that hasn't been jaded to all hell, you've got a VERY small window of time to match with them and get them face-to-face and then try and convince them to get off the app entirely.
Hence why I say that apps have 'gamified' dating. And I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't freaking luck of the draw.
God-damn.
For other sorts of behaviors this would probably have a specific diagnosis in the DSM-5.
But it validates my other assumption: meeting women in person is now tainted because even if they're not on dating apps, they are aware they can hop on at any time and be basked in attention. You might even manage to talk her into a date in person, but she might think "I should check my other options one more time" and hop on just to sate curiosity.
The final thing that blows my mind is that I talk to various guys who sort of get this fact, but also don't see how continuing to play the game is what makes it worse. Its like a person complaining about all the traffic on their commute, neglecting the fact that they ARE traffic.
One of my favorite (in a dark humor kind of way) pairings is the "I was on an app for one time for 15 minutes and met the love of my life, so apps are great for dating" fresh-faced woman with the "1000-yard stare multi-year veteran of trying to date from apps" man.
This is literally my marriage. I had about 18 months of deliberate dating grind before I met my wife and by the end of it after I'd lost like 20KG and optimized my stuff I'd been going on 2-3 first dates a week for the last couple months. It was ludicrous.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link