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Every White Male In Minnesota is now ICE
First I saw the video of a MSM Cameraman who was accused by a crowd of being ICE due to the car he drove. He himeslf was Anti-ICE and fine with opening his vehicle up and showing that all he had inside was camera equipment. The crowd was not mollified by this, their demands just grew more ridiculous. "Get another car! Rent a car!" They learned no lessons about stereotyping people based on their race and vehicle. It was the victim's fault for looking like the wrong type of person.
Then I saw the video of the tech workers sitting down for lunch together. One of the gentlemen was on an Anti-ICE Signal chat and saw a notification that was accusing him and his friends of being ICE. At first it seemed funny, but then the mob descended. And of course, despite this mob not having any badges, several of them covering up their faces, generally being a threatening bunch, these tech workers were expected to give out details about where they work, where they live, what their occupation is, their politics, etc. lest they face the wrath of the mob.
The videos are abundant once you start looking. The Tree Trimmer who has a caravan of Anti-ICE cars following them around, honking, for the crime of driving a work van with tinted windows. The tall white guy just walking by himself with a warm jacket.
The irony of it all is that this is what anti ICE groups are accusing ICE of doing. Going to places and harassing people based off of stereotypes without any legal authority to do so. Demanding evidence to prove that someone belongs here.
However, that's just not true. ICE goes after specific people who have a final order of dismissal from an Immigration judge. When they do so, they often find other illegal immigrants living in the same area or working at the same business, as that is the nature of these things. Oftentimes these people also have final orders of removal. And so it goes.
From January to October of last year, only 170 US citizens were detained by ICE as reported by ProPublica. Of those 170, many were arrested for interfering with ICE operations. Compare this with 234,211 removals (I don't have data on arrests or detentions, but I can assume the number of arrests/detentions is greater than removals. The "US Citizen arrest rate" is at most 0.07% of the ICE arrestees, probably much smaller due to fact that there are more detentions than removals.
The narrative of, "ICE is just going to immigrant communities and asking to see papers and then arresting anyone who can't prove without a shadow of a doubt that they're here legally," does not hold up to scrutiny. But it seems like Anti-ICE people are assuming this is their playbook because it's what they would do, and are now doing.
It's interesting that you preceded this little tidbit with examples of four non-ICE being accused of ICE. How many people accused of being ICE actually were ICE? If you're implying that a certain false positive rate is acceptable, at least show that the behavior you're complaining about is above that rate.
The irony of you mentioning "equivocation" further down this thread, as any equivocation—to the extent that it eventually occurred—was initially enabled here when you made this comment and the false equivalence it contains. You discuss ICE and anti-ICE false positive rates as if they're different sides of the same coin, yet:
ICE false positive: ICE was wrong in incorrectly arresting someone.
ICE true positive: ICE was right in correctly arresting someone.
Anti-ICE false positive: They were wrong in harassing someone that had nothing to do with ICE.
Anti-ICE true positive: They were wrong in harassing an ICE officer off-duty or wrong in obstructing an ICE officer on-duty.
There's not a "positive" for which anti-ICE can be in the right. Furthermore, ICE is right X% of the time and wrong (1-X%) of the time, whereas anti-ICE is wrong 100% of the time.
That's simply a value judgment that doesn't get us anywhere. Being anti-ICE is only "wrong" when the activity in furtherance of that position breaks the law. You may not like the fact that people are protesting, recording their activity, or warning the community of their presence, but all of these things are both legal and constitutionally protected.
One of my values is that incorrect arrests are bad, although incorrect arrests are sometimes incurred in the "furtherance" of correct arrests, and there's a tradeoff between incorrect and correct arrests if one seeks correct arrests.
Another one of my values is that harassing people is bad, whether or not the person's occupation is law enforcement—if they're law enforcement, this especially goes while they're on duty. Perhaps your values differ on this front.
Either way, let’s play along and evaluate whether anti-ICE breaks the law in the "furtherance of [their] position" with the evidence that we have. I figured I'd take a look myself at Minnesota statutes given sometimes you might not have done your legal due diligence before commenting.
I was using "harassment" somewhat colloquially, but there's Subdivision 1. of Minnesota's Disorderly Conduct:
Where (3) of Subdivision 1. is:
I would say impeding the path of an individual or group of individuals, blowing loud whistles in front of them, following them and shouting things like "FUCK YOU NAZI," following them and blowing whistles at them and honking at them, would qualify as "noisy conduct" or "abusive language" that could be reasonably interpreted as an attempt to "arouse alarm, anger, or resentment in others."
There's also statutes on harassment per se:
Likewise, impeding the path of an individual or group of individuals, blowing loud whistles in front of them, following them and shouting things like 'FUCK YOU NAZI,' following them and blowing whistles at them and honking at them, could be reasonably interpreted as an attempt to "follow[] monitor[], or pursue[] another, whether in person or through any available technological or other mean... with the intent to kill, injure, harass, or intimidate another person." To intimidate would already qualify.
Then there's Obstruction. As (1) states:
Once again, doing things such as the aforementioned "impeding the path of an individual or group of individuals, blowing loud whistles in front of them, following them and shouting things like ‘FUCK YOU NAZI,’ following them and blowing whistles at them and honking at them," would apply, much less hindering the lawful execution of any legal process by pathways such as driving your vehicle at them.
I would certainly feel hindered and obstructed at my job if a crowd showed up to do things including, but not limited to—blocking my path, surrounding me, and/or blowing whistles in my face.
The state legislature can pass all the laws they want, but their application is limited to the bounds of the Constitution. Impeding the path of law enforcement may rise to the level of obstruction depending on the specific circumstances, but blowing whistles and shouting insults are expressive activities that don't fall within any exception to the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has already addressed this directly, and since they've already ruled that Nazis marching through a neighborhood of Holocaust survivors and members of the Westboro Baptist Church yelling insults during soldiers' funerals are protected speech, it's safe to say that people blowing whistles around ICE agents isn't going to cut it.
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