Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 194
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm reading the new Malazan Karsa book: No Life Forsaken and I noticed something strange. The foreword is dedicated to Youtube book streamers and Booktok explicitly. This feels oddly tacky and off-putting. I never really thought of Steven Erikson in that light. Anyone know if this is some new weird parasocial thing authors are doing? Or is Erikson a trailblazer.
Do the Karsa books tell us a lot about the world and plot after the events of The Crippled God, or is it more like side story focused on Karsa?
It almost doesn’t feature Karsa at all. It’s very post CG Malazan empire. The first was more theloman focused, and this second one was very 7th cities focused. This last one had some odd azathani focus that made it feel more like a fall of light/walk in shadow prelude
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Whatever gets people to read more.
We took our 17 year olds phone for three days and he started reading Blood Meridian and pondering that he may be a loser - both good things!
Heh, I suppose I am removed the youth of these days, video games were ubiquitous in my days but so was reading. I didn't have the super-stimulus of a smart phone available until much later
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Huh that feels quite weird for Erikson yeah. I didn't know about that. Excited he's finally publishing the Karsa trilogy though. I love Malazan have read it a few times now.
The first book was good but the themes felt far more heavy handed than his previous works. I'm hoping this second book isn't so... degraded? idk the exact feeling.
Keep us posted. FWIW I felt the Karsa parts, while cool, we're the most morally degraded of the whole series. Well perhaps besides that one part with Toc the Younger... blech.
Different kind of degraded. You are talking morally degraded, and yeah Karsa has super foreign morals. I agree with the Erikson blogpost on the purpose of writing him is, to really bring into the perspective the narrative of "Noble Savage".
I meant degraded in terms of tropes/quality. The first book had this almost preachy take on modern social issues wrapped up into the plot that felt distinctly heavy handed in a way that a high quality author like Erikson should be above. It is also fundamentally at odds with my understanding of his general literary style: he writes civilizations with the dispassionate style of an archeologist(which he is). There's no: "this is right" "this is wrong" only "this is a socio-cultural permutation that could exist, lets explore it in a story". He has overarching themes, but the pro-immigration/pro-refugee stance was so off kilter, so black and white, and so pronounced that it felt like a departure.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Every time I see a section of a brick-and-mortar bookshop called "booktok" I cringe.
I've heard of video games that include a little notice at the start inviting the player to stream the game on Twitch, which strikes me as tacky in the same way.
Tacky, yes, but I'll not blame them for trying to be a bit trendy and get sales/numbers/interest up.
Yeah its the tackiness that seems to impact my mind the most. I feel like its one of these costly signals. Erikson is a well established writer with a well established fan base. One would suppose that he has no need to really engage in the new-rich/tacky/booktok style marketing for a mass market audience. The costly signal for high quality reading material is that it doesn't need to try and be trendy because its quality will make it so regardless. It likely jars me, because it is directly coming into conflict with my estimation, making me re-evaluate
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
This would make me squirm. I'm now dreading going to my local trendy Brick-and-Mortar. Yeah the game thing feels the same way, it's almost like begging for attention. It would feel actually worse if they directly thanked certain game streamers on twitch by the handles
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link