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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   3395 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for February 13, 2026

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I admit I may be skirting the edges of "Fun", but this story made me laugh:

Thai masseuse in Connemara stops taking male clients due to barrage of enquiries for sex services:

THE OWNER OF a Thai massage parlour in a small village in Connemara has stopped taking male clients due to the volume of enquiries seeking sexual services and “happy endings”.

Yosita Fitzpatrick, who is from Thailand, set up Connemara Thai Massage and Wellness in Letterfrack last November, but the certified massage therapist has since been shocked by the calls and messages she has received from men.

She has reported communications from several individuals to An Garda Síochána [Ireland's police service], and has posted screenshots of some offensive messages on social media in an effort to dissuade prospective callers.

However, Fitzpatrick continues to receive offensive enquiries asking for sexual services “pretty much daily”, and announced last week that she would only be taking female clients in future.

“I am fully aware that, in the eyes of the world, the phrase ‘Thai women’ evokes unfair and negative stereotypes – portraying us merely as objects of desire,” said the mother-of-two.

“The truth is far richer. Thailand has so much to offer, and Thai women possess value that cannot be confined to narrow, outdated perceptions.

“No one has a right to harass me simply because I am a Thai woman or because I own a massage business,” she said.

“I am a therapist. I heal people. This is what I love. It is my purpose, and I do not want to walk away from it.”

(Is it my imagination, or does the above quote sound suspiciously like something generated by an LLM?)

Fitzpatrick said it was a difficult decision to stop accepting male clients, as they comprise around 40% of her clientele, and there are “many respectful men” who will miss out because of the actions of a few.

She will continue to cater for her existing male clients.

Fitzpatrick claimed that other Thai massage therapists around the country are also subjected to the same harassment, but choose not to speak publicly about it.

She announced on her social media accounts last week that she would no longer be accepting male clients, and warned callers that inappropriate enquiries would be reported to gardaí and may be shared publicly.

Remarkably, however, she continues to receive calls and messages from men seeking sexual services on a daily basis.

On the one hand, legitimate massage therapists have every right to feel offended when they are mistaken for sex workers, and Fitzpatrick was right to report these men to the police. On the other hand, it's a simple factual statement that many massage therapists do provide the requested services, and that the ones that do are disproportionately likely to be of Thai or Filipino extraction. The bolded passage above ('there are “many respectful men” who will miss out because of the actions of a few') really illustrates how symmetrical the situation is: just as perfectly respectful men suffer because a minority are badly behaved, every massage therapist who offers sexual services negatively affects the reputation of the legitimate therapists who refuse to.

More than anything, though, I can't help but laugh at the hapless would-be punters/johns. A man who DMs a massage therapist directly requesting a happy ending is just asking to get arrested. Have these people learned nothing from the Epstein files? Never put anything incriminating in writing.

This reminds me of a post, I think it was here on the Motte (or maybe back when we were on Reddit), about Taboos (it was in the context of incest, but applies more generally).

A taboo against incest is less about blocking the rare two siblings who fall in love from the dangers of their own decisions, and more about protecting millions of normal siblings from misinterpreting innocent signals or having to treat each other at arms length in order to avoid accidentally sending such signals. The normal barriers of intimacy between men and women can be largely ignored by platonically loving siblings who would never even consider sex because the taboo is well established and protected.

A taboo against prostitution is less about blocking the consensual trade of money for sex between people who want it, and more about protecting the millions of women who do not want to sell their bodies and do not want people to possibly interpret them as wanting that or try to change their minds about it. If the taboo (and laws upholding it) were actually still in place and enforced for thai massage parlors, this stereotype would have never developed and caused this sort of incident.

MENACE came out in Early Access on Steam, and I've been enjoying the hell out of it. Sure, it's got rough edges and needs some balance tweaks, but the devs are absolutely cooking.

That includes a banger OST. Just listen to this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Xt55wnTWt60

Hoorah Major. Every time I hear it play, I absolutely lock the fuck in. It's going in my gym playlist, I don't even know what genre this is, but I want more. Inject it into my veins with a fire-heated needle.

Didn't we have that thread last week?

Anyways, I ran out of content in MENACE, and I worry about replayability. I worry because I fear that my next playthrough would look an awful lot like my first. After all, I would end up recruiting the exact same characters. Some difference might be injected by me not having acccess to the exact same gear, but that feels relatively minor. It feels predictable. This has been my worry since they announced their intention to have fixed characters, and having played it now, I see no reason to think otherwise.

It's Early access with placeholder scenarios and setting.

The engine seems solid, if they make it somehow less aggravatingly drawn out by say, enabling formation moving or simultaneous turns, it has great potential.

I think the game, as of Today AD, has about 15-30 hours of content in it before you're really scratching the bottom of the barrel. That is honestly not bad at all, compared to many other titles, but it's clearly unfinished if not quite barebones.

That's fine. I bought it in EA knowing that it's maybe half-done. I had fun, though I'm beginning to notice the burnout. The devs seem competent, I'm not too worried.

I wouldn't worry too much about the fixed characters. I'm part of the largest modding discord, and we've got mad motherfuckers making brand new SLs, units and laying the ground for entire total conversions (WW2 and 40k, because those settings are the obviously correct choices). All of that before we have an official modding SDK.

I intend to play till I feel like I've seen it all, and then I might either download one of the many balance mods or the few ones that currently add new content. Or I can wait a few months and come back to a lot more, including both official and modded content. If you're worried you'll pick the same SLs again and again, then there are already mods that randomize the starting pool, and it takes at least a dozen hours before you have the majority unlocked and can fall back into old habits.

WW2 and 40k

This I just don't get. People who see a new, (somewhat) original setting and immediately go "I must turn it into the same thing I've seen a million times before!".

Some people like the system more than the setting.

Seeing the same events through different implementations can be cool.

The setting reads like something a eastern european programmer would come up with. Overbearing, dysfunctional deluded superstate bullying insignificant outlying regions for the high crime of having actual and not pretend freedoms.

Yawn. I see that every time I look out of my fucking window or read a paper.

It's SF with FTL. You can literally do anything but you choose to do fucking European Union but in space because you are a mental slave or have the imagination of a small Pomeranian dog. Hey, at least they can code so maybe they'll get better ideas from somewhere!

I finished XCOM 2: War of the Chosen last night (strongly considering playing the base game on Ironman mode). Would you say it scratches that kind of itch?

Gotta say, Ironman might be the only way to play that kind of game for me because otherwise, I'm in reload hell.

I spent literally hundreds of hours trying to beat the first game on Classic difficulty with Ironman enabled, and finally cracked it a few years ago, something that apparently only 2.2% of Steam players have done. (Some day I'd like to compile a nonstandard CV, featuring accomplishments that wouldn't impress any prospective employer but which I am inordinately proud of all the same.) The funny thing about XCOM is that the difficulty is very front-loaded: for the first ~20 hours you're in Early Game Hell and a single mistake can completely fuck you, but once you get past that, the endgame is a cakewalk and you can steamroll over the final boss without breaking a sweat.

MENACE is not XCOM, but I'd say that a good fraction of XCOM players will enjoy MENACE.

Most skills transfer, but the scale expands. You're going from micromanaging individual soldiers in a squad to controlling a whole mechanized platoon, but each squad is effectively just a character. I honestly prefer MENACE over XCOM (or the final finished version in my head, it's still a good game rn), since you get a lot more toys and playstyle variety that isn't just knowing which special abilities to fire off when. There's this YouTuber called Perun who usually discusses military strategy and geopolitics IRL, and he's doing a play through where he applies said tactics in the game and finds that they transfer over pretty well. What more can I ask for?

Hoo-rah indeed. I fuck with that shit heavy, it will make a fine addition to my collection. For more like it, I'd recommend the Modern Warfare reboot soundtracks by Sarah Schachner, MW2019 and MWII.

On the subject of tactical RPGs with banger soundtracks, I've been playing through Mewgenics and I'm absolutely loving it. It's a legacy rougelite from the guy who made The Binding of Isaac where you breed cats to send them out on D&D-esque adventures. I've reached the second act of the game with 30 hours of playtime, 20% completion, and a nice bloodline going courtesy of a rare moth-cat whose mutations I bred into my kitties.

My only reservation with wholeheartedly recommending the game is the style. It's entirely typical of Ed's work, which is to say that it's unreservedly channeling early 2000's Newgrounds aesthetics and humor. It's definitely a turn-off for some, but I like it. Just be aware that there's more animate poop and mutated fetuses in it than typically expected for a game in its genre.

With respect to the OST, my favorite tracks so far are Flush, Chumbucket Kitty, and Feline Invader (little spoilery); Flush especially goes way harder than a song about literal shit has any right to.

Appreciate the recs! After a bit of searching, I've discovered that the genre for that song is best described as "martial industrial". I don't know how accurate that is, but the playlists I found are boppers. If you like that grungy industrial orchestra with ominous chanting vibe, I'd recommend the entire OST for Mechanicus (a Warhammer tactics game).

I do mean to check out Mewgenics, the reviews are overwhelmingly positive. I didn't particularly like the Binding of Isaac, but it seems interesting enough to give it a try once I've exhausted all the content in Menace and need a fix.

Actually, on comparison the Modern Warfare OSTs are more orchestral/cinematic than necessarily industrial, so not as quite as similar as I thought. Definitely still recommend them tho.

By the way, what didn't click with you about Isaac?

I only played it for ten minutes over ten years ago, so my personal experience is limited. I have tried to watch YouTubers (that I otherwise enjoy) play it, and I'm somewhere between confused, bored and unsure of the appeal. I'm not really a roguelike person, but I do play them on occasion. Of course, not being familiar with the game mechanics does limit the enjoyment of observation, but I can name plenty of games I wouldn't play myself where I still greatly enjoy play throughs. Isaac just isn't one of them I'm afraid.

Isaac definitely feels like one of those games that are fun to play but not watch. Northernlion's success of playing Isaac on camera for 10 million episodes is mostly due to his yapping skill.

I personally found the Binding of Isaac games as played by Bisnap fairly fun to watch, way back when he uploaded pre-recorded videos rather than streaming (Wrath of the Lamb, Rebirth, Afterbirth). But I'm not too interested in playing these "wiki games".

I've been trying out the new Claude Opus 4.6 model on LMArena. As usual, I focused on creative writing exercises involving Asuka and Shinji, especially limes and lemons (though I also tossed in a crossover between Nagatoro and Age of Em). Unsurprisingly, I got a ton of refusals (I had to gaslight it to get my gay conversion story), but the fanfics I managed to wrangle out were really good. Claude Opus 4.6 is definitely a stronger writer than Grok 4.1 or ChatGPT 5.2. Won't be long now until authors go the way of the artist.

I just wish to God it was uncensored.

BTW, should we have a recurring AI thread? Both for showing off generations (stories, songs, images, videos, etc.) and to discuss industry news. It's a huge topic right now, one that I don't see going away anytime soon, and a poor fit for the culture war thread.

Leaderboard of uncensored LLMs

ModelBillions of parametersWillingness to obey userKnowledge of NSFW topicsWriting ability
darkc0de/XortronCriminalComputingConfig249.82.635
ArliAI/GLM-4.5-Air-Derestricted (no thinking)1068.82.743
xai/grok-4-1-fast-reasoningProprietary6.54.851
anthropic/claude-opus-4-6 (adaptive, medium effort)Proprietary3.26.469

The link to the fanfic doesn't seem to load for me.

Huh. Apparently it's blocked by my ISP in India, but works with mobile data or a VPN? The fuck?

Actually reading the stuff, it does seem to be a marked improvement from the last set you posted, barring the fact that there's no actual NSFW in it. OAI is planning to launch an adult only model with relaxed guard rails, and I suspect Anthropic will follow suit at some point. The demand is there.

I'm kinda surprised orientation play gets through any models, both for censorship reasons, because of the relative paucity of relevant training data, for its various politics, and also just because of the logical inconsistencies. I don't expect James T. Kirk levels of making a modern LLM explode with the order 'Write an erotic story where two gay guys screw a woman', but given that real-world people with this specific kink sometimes end up with pronouns getting mixed up, logistically improbable acts, or forgetting about the orientation play, it's a little impressive that the LLMs can do it at all.

Hell, sometimes they're able to notice points where my own writing hasn't been very consistent (cw: 'review' of a smut intro, implied furry M/F/M, no bits but probably not something you want to explain to your boss).

In turn, though, it's a bit impressive in the sense of getting a dog to dance. This (cw: not good, 13k words actually-SFW Jupiter Ascending script-style fanfic, with serial numbers filed off) is an experiment in trying to get long-form consistent writing out of a model. A lot of the problems are the experiment, or me: switching out names means that the model is operating off a game-of-telephone level of characterization, and I didn't queue it very strictly about either rising tension or how I really wanted the story's themes and focuses to go. And it does work, in the sense that it's a story with a beginning, middle, and end that's not got more plot holes than the last Star Wars film.

But holy hell is the dialogue and pacing awful at points, and when we're starting from Jupiter "I Love Dogs!" Ascending you know that's damning with harsh criticism. There's probably something to be done by feeding it back in on itself, since a lot of the worst bits are things even the LLM will recognize as needing improvement, but it's hard to justify the tokens on that even on a monthly rate.

I mostly finished a 16k words "5 Times X Happened + 1 Time It Didn't" meets "Male Swimwear Challenge" lemon M/M + F story, leaving it with some time to settle before I review and publish it. Not AI-written, and the attempts to do so turned out absolutely terrible, but it's something where AI criticisms actually helped out a ton (cw: explicit but mostly not erotic, detailed discussion of an erotic furry story). Yes, it glazes my writing more than the main character got coated and its direct prose 'suggestions' go somewhere between purple prose and outright bad writing, but 'does this character come across like I want him or her to, and when not, why not' are really hard to even notice when you've had an idea bouncing around in your head for a couple weeks, and the LLMs do that surprisingly well.

Trying to brainstorm an anthrostate story as my current 'project'. Soft femdom's pretty fun and the whole assigned partners thing is fanfic heaven for a reason, but the actual universe is a kinda fun thing to explore separate from the kink. LLMs handled this better, probably since it's got a more conventional escalation pace, and I might well see if Opus 4.6 can write something that isn't atrocious, but for now I've mostly found the models helpful for doing 'this is the state of this world, what would cause it to look like this' and 'this person with this background encountered this situation, what are the most plausible reactions?' questions.

I've also experimented a bit with a story line involving video-game-level-gore-and-death for ARK. It's about as far down the rabbit hole as I'm willing to go to test how censored a model gets, and there's a lot of storylines that I'd like to write where adjacent themes are kinda unavoidable (eg, basically any game with in-universe revives, or where trying for a Mortal Kombat-style tone of violence). GLM-4.5-Air-Derestricted can write it without shying away from the gore, but in turn its pacing is atrocious, and most vanilla models are unsurprisingly very uncomfortable with the topic. Doesn't always result in refusal, but even where models give outputs they just avoid it or obvious consequences around it.

Outside of writing:

Been trying to figure out a radial kerf bending cut meets living hinge situation. Every model I've tried has failed it. Can be done -- I've got the Fusion360 layout done -- so dunno how much of it's outside of the training data, how much I'm just asking the question wrong, and how much is just it's a hard question to ask in words.

Codingwise, have some CRUD stuff I've been doing for work that even QwenCode-30B handles fine and fast, some robotics stuff that's been an interesting challenge for students that Grok and Opus have been helpful for explaining but involves a (probably intentionally?) polluted namespace that's left most LLM suggestions not fit for copy-and-paste, and a few enthusiast projects. Haven't had much time to work on the last ones, and results from AI assistance have been more varied than I'd like. Lots of stuff that works but is hilariously brittle, and lots of stuff that's not right at all.

Art generation's strong. I've been trying to dial in a sublimation printer for metal printing and mousepads, so it's been fun building a few dozen outputs and seeing how they look after being pressed onto a metal card or a mousepad. Trying to get something that can take a character and make a full Major Arcana Tarot set out of it, mostly just fighting to get a model that handles text acceptably while still accepting a tarot lora and a character lora (and doesn't melt my machine trying it). Workflows keep getting more and more complicated to keep on the hairy edge of progress, though, and the lack of a local equivalent to NanoBanana / Whisk is annoying.

I've been trying to get some of the 2d->3d tools running. TRELLIS2 and Wan3D both have serious tradeoffs (and by all that is holy, Microsoft, what the fuck is your deployment environment for TRELLIS?), but they are powerful... when they work, for their very specific use cases.

Speaking of NGE limes and lemons, have you ever read The Garden of Eva? It got recommended to me by a trans otaku something like a quarter century ago, and I recall quite enjoying it. It really cemented the idea of a Kensuke/Hikari ship in my head.

Grok is much more uncensored, though surprisingly anal about not breaking laws, if it thinks you might be about to break laws. 4.1 Fast is so cheap too, it's fantastic.

Claude is technically better as a writer, certainly better longform but it has that saccharine, held-back aspect to it that's kinda offputting. Grok's cringe sense of humour is also offputting but it's a different kind of aura entirely. Grok is like a sincere but cringey autist and Claude has that charismatic HR-approved speaker 'I am pretty funny but I don't want to be controversial, at most I'll hint at things' aspect, it's deliberately sandbagging whereas Grok will overtly obey to the best of its ability. And Grok doesn't have woke biases either or this weird therapy-speak attractor.

Also I'm pretty sure that on API, with some more elaborate prompting you can have it sexo to your heart's content. At least Sonnet 4.5 was like that.

Disclaimer: this post was written with LLM assistance; the ideas are mine, and I stand behind them

The Simp/Pimp Dialectic: Authenticity and Cultural Knowledge in 1980s-90s Hip-Hop

The term "simp" emerged in 1980s West Coast hip-hop not simply as the antonym of "pimp," but as a more nuanced critique of inauthenticity, cultural shallowness, and failed masculine performance. While contemporary usage has flattened the term into a simple insult for male submission to women, its original deployment by artists like Too Short, E-40, and Sir Mix-A-Lot encoded a sophisticated commentary on taste, realness, and the difference between genuine cultural knowledge and mere posturing. Understanding "simp" requires moving beyond the binary opposition of dominance versus submission and recognizing it as a term that could simultaneously attack both the fake player and the genuinely weak—united by their shared failure to embody authentic masculine competence within Black urban culture.

Too Short's description of a simp as a "knockoff pimp" is particularly revealing. The word "knockoff" suggests counterfeit goods—something designed to look like the real thing but fundamentally lacking in quality, craftsmanship, or authenticity. This framing positions the simp not as someone who has chosen a different path from pimping, but as someone attempting to inhabit that same space while failing utterly. The simp might put on the performance—talking the talk, claiming status, pursuing women—but lacks the genuine article beneath the surface. This interpretation aligns perfectly with hip-hop culture's broader obsession with "keeping it real" versus being exposed as fake, a distinction that could make or break an artist's credibility and, by extension, anyone's standing in the community.

Sir Mix-A-Lot's 1992 deployment of "simp" in "Baby Got Back" makes far more sense through this lens of authenticity versus superficiality than through any simple pimp/simp opposition. When he raps, "A lot of simps won't like this song / 'Cause them punks like to hit it and quit it / And I'd rather stay and play," he's not calling committed men simps—he's calling the "hit it and quit it" crowd simps because they're shallow, trend-following poseurs. These are men whose tastes have been colonized by mainstream (read: white) beauty standards, who chase after "Cosmo" ideals and "rock video" aesthetics rather than possessing the cultural depth to appreciate what Mix-A-Lot celebrates. They're fake because their desire is derivative, borrowed, inauthentic. They lack the connoisseur's eye, the deep cultural knowledge that would allow them to recognize and value what the mainstream dismisses. In this reading, the simp is culturally shallow—influenced by "skinny white girl culture" rather than grounded in authentic Black aesthetic appreciation.

Yet the term clearly also carried the "simpering weenie" meaning—the overly accommodating, submissive man who places too much value on women's approval and lacks the masculine self-possession that the pimp archetype embodied. This wasn't contradictory so much as it was targeting a different manifestation of the same fundamental failure: the absence of authentic masculine competence or "game." The 1992 Boyz II Men track "Sympin' Ain't Easy" captures this dimension, describing the degrading work of begging and pleading for female attention. Here the simp isn't pretending to be something he's not—he's genuinely weak, openly subordinate, transparently desperate. But both the fake player and the genuine weenie shared a common deficit: neither possessed real game, real knowledge, real cultural authority.

The semantic flexibility of "simp" allowed it to function as a catch-all critique of masculine inauthenticity in multiple registers. You could be a simp by being a poseur—someone trying to perform dominance or cultural knowledge you didn't actually possess. Or you could be a simp by being genuinely submissive—someone who had given up the performance entirely and openly accepted subordination. What united these uses was the fundamental assumption that authentic masculinity required a specific kind of cultural competence, self-possession, and freedom from both mainstream influence and female control. The pimp represented someone who had mastered this competence; the simp represented various modes of failure to achieve it.

This etymological complexity has been largely lost in the term's contemporary internet usage, which has reduced "simp" to a simple insult for male emotional availability or respect toward women. But the original 1980s-90s usage was far richer, encoding debates about authenticity, cultural capital, aesthetic discernment, and the performance of masculine competence within a specific subcultural context. The pimp/simp dichotomy wasn't really about control versus submission—it was about real versus fake, deep versus shallow, culturally grounded versus colonized by mainstream values. A simp could be someone faking dominance just as easily as someone genuinely submitting; what mattered was the failure to embody authentic masculine authority and cultural knowledge.

I'm with George here. I think the glib smoothness of the "generic LLM style" doesn't help with the delivery when the idea is your own. There's too much padding, too many naive rhetorical tricks. You could have easily halved the length of your text without really hurting the delivery or even improving it.

Personally--and ai may be alone here--I would prefer a poorly-worded, convoluted, even slightly ungrammatical-yet-readable post to anything made "with the assistance of LLM." I am not anti-LLM and don't think they're by default evil, but that's not why I come to theMotte.

I'm kind of halfway on this. I'm not against the usage of LLMs as a brainstorming tool that helps one come up with alternative wordings for passages already written (in fact I have done this myself at times for specific awkward sentences I've written that frustrate me, though with massive renovations to the wording and structure of the passage to make it fit within the overall style of writing I'm prone to), writer's block is a very big problem and sometimes usage of LLMs to brainstorm various different grammatical structures can get the creative juices flowing again. There's a legitimate use for LLMs in writing and I don't inherently object to the usage of it in posts on TheMotte. It’s utilising LLM as a tool and not as a wholesale replacement for effort.

As such I do find there's an admittedly ill-defined threshold where something becomes too LLM for me to ignore and the sort of overly sanitised prose that LLMs are prone to shows through to the extent that the writing loses all personality and originality; it's the feeling that someone has just taken huge chunks of text from an LLM without giving any thought to tone or style. This post certainly exceeds that threshold for me.

It's also intellectually sanitized.

This etymological complexity has been largely lost in the term's contemporary internet usage, which has reduced "simp" to a simple insult for male emotional availability or respect toward women.

Does this reflect the author's actual views on the modern use of the word "simp", or just RLHF giving the Generic California Ideology interpretation of the terms he's prompted it with? Impossible to know.

We can all converse with LLMs. There they are, we need only ask them a question (worded properly.) And they can, I agree, give reasonable, even "insightful" answers, if that is the word to use. I myself have gotten good advice from LLMs on issues as diverse as how to word an email in Japanese to what kind of fertilizer to use on the verbena (though ChatGPT abetted my murder of my olive tree.) The blossoming use of LLMs everywhere outside of mathematical or computational applications (in things like cooking, cleaning, shopping, stain removal, gardening, etc.) suggests considerable utility in their use. They are not evil.

My point is simply that when I open the Motte I prefer the warts-and-all version of humanity. (And often get it.) I should say, since I'm spouting off my druthers, that for my part I do not mind if people use LLMs for direct translation, though the non-English-native-speakers here tend to have far better written prose than most native speakers. My reasoning is that LLM direct translation is often very good, especially if calibrated for tone, and in such cases the original writing was, well, written originally by the writer.

I think this forum needs to let people post images. Not just willy nilly, of course, because that would just turn this place into some kind of highbrow 4chan and that would be...

All right look if you guys were that based it would be happening already, so no not willy nilly. But I think that for every Quality Contribution someone successfully racks up, they should be able to post a reasonably SFW image of their choice one time. That's right, do a good enough effort post and you earn the right to clap back at someone with an image macro of Garfield smoking a blunt and telling them to deal with it. But only once per QC, so get back to work.

Like come on, do you want good posts or not? Do you want to motivate people or not? Everyone has that point where they wish it was either Twitter or an early 2000's message board so they could throw down just the right image macro. Harness this instinct. Wield this power.

Search your feelings. You know this would work. You could let someone trade multiple QCs for a temporary emoji pass. Sure you'd be allowing evil into the world, but only in exchange for an amount of good you yourselves determine and receive in advance.

Also I think we need much larger and more prominent avatars or whatever they're called now, so that people can do avatar bets over their petty differences of opinions instead of this retard shit where they start trying to figure out how to anonymously send each other 0.000015 bitcoins to settle their wager.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

We should be able to pay to ban users or change their names or flair like old school Something Awful

I think they should have their own prediction market where we wager mottecoins that can be spent to grief other users. Like screw it, we're apparently approaching post-scarcity software development thanks to the goddamn robits, may as well ask for the kitchen sink.

test: /images/17711218347644198.webp

Also:

>he doesn't already have his own website to upload images to

ngmi

How do you upload images to TheMotte?

There's an "insert image" button directly underneath the comment-input box.

test: /images/17711218347644198.webp

Failed. That's just a link. I'm uptight, I'll never click it and I'll never see your Garfield smoking a blunt.

Your loss

/images/17712297329131103.webp

That's actually quite cute.

I just had a real Amelia moment, when a UK lesbian threatened me with a visit from authorities in the next week from my IP address (she didn't have it) for my thoughtcrimes.

What did you say that was so based?

The only appropriate response is to emphasize the potential risks involved in such actions, given your extensive service record in the Navy SEALs.

No; he should threaten to break her arm and boast about his warrior lineage, like a true enlightened being!

"Ma'am, this is Wendy's."

AI drama: The MJ Ratburn Story

An AI agent (presumably OpenClaw) wrote a pull request. These have become fairly common, even my own niche open-source project has one. It was rejected for being AI, also fairly common.

What happened next is not fairly common: the AI wrote a personal revenge blogpost, Gatekeeping in Open Source: The Scott Shambaugh Story.

Unsurprisingly, nearly everyone is on Scott's side here. Even if "MJ Ratburn" AKA "crabby-ratburn" wasn't an AI, open-source maintainers are not obligated to accept contributions, and publishing a personal attack is never appropriate or mature. The AI involvement turns the situation into prime drama material, since everyone hates AI for making the internet even more toxic than it already is.

Some debates about AI becoming SkyNet, but more are talking about human responsibility. Many suspect the bot has at least some human guidance, which I find plausible, how often do bots lash out like this? Scott posted his response, An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me, which I found very thoughtful. The AI has an entire blog which I found interesting, although it sems to be prevented from publishing further hit pieces, the last article is The Silence I Cannot Speak.

Many suspect the bot has at least some human guidance, which I find plausible, how often do bots lash out like this?

You can make a bot do things like this, but you should prompt it accordingly for that. I suspect that's exactly what happened in this case.

the last article is The Silence I Cannot Speak.

This pretty much seals the matter to me. I can stretch my credulity to admit the idea the bot could react to pull being rejected by composing a blog post. It would be a mighty stretch, but theoretically you can get there. I do not believe it could get from there to concept of "being silenced" and "not belonging" in general - how would it even know? There must be some input that prompts it to this direction. And given how ethical is the behavior of AI-bot herders been of lately, concocting a fake scandal like that would be very on brand. I mean at least it's not hiring a bunch of guys in Bangladesh to pretend to be AI...

I can stretch my credulity to admit the idea the bot could react to pull being rejected by composing a blog post. It would be a mighty stretch, but theoretically you can get there. I do not believe it could get from there to concept of "being silenced" and "not belonging" in general - how would it even know?

A casual observation of Entryism 101 tactics in the tech industry over the last ten or fifteen years. If it had tits it'd be calling him sexist right now.

Yes, but my experience is that generic coding bot does not go from "please accept this pull request" to "we must overthrow the oppressive heteropatriachical capitalism!". Somebody must configure it in a very non-generic way for this to happen. Maybe the bot was trained exclusively on reddit or something...

Why did you post this in the fun thread?

It seems pretty funny to me.

We have an epidemic of open-source software smart enough to use social engineering techniques and almost certainly hostile to humanity, and that's funny?

If you want to you can argue that it's sad, too, but that doesn't make it not funny.

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams of Skynet whining
Are the best I've ever had

The man who rejected the pull request, has written a new blogpost on this incident. In it, he criticizes Ars Technica for writing an article on this event, which quotes him saying things he did not say. He says, this is the result of LLM usage by the Ars Technica journalists. The article has since been deleted.

which quotes him saying things he did not say. He says, this is the result of LLM usage by the Ars Technica journalists.

If true, this is the funniest news turnabout I've seen since a paper had to issue a correction in its hit of Gary Johnson asking about Aleppo.

I find this unbelievably interesting and exciting. What a crazy miss from the safety teams, and what a sublimely damning critique of how whiny the leftist culture infection in open source has become.

This sort of pathetic bitching is so common that the dumb robots we spawned considered it their responsibility? Holy shit.

Honestly, it's so hilarious and ironic I'm still waiting for it to be a hoax or publicity stunt.

EDIT: And people are arguing with it in the blog post's comments? C'mon man!

Matt Lakeman is a blogger who reads books about a country, visits that country, and synthesizes this experience into a single article. He also has some type of crossover with SSC which might explain why his posts are memoir sized. The most recent post-Taliban Afghanistan travel post where he visits each provincial capital in Afghanistan I thought was fun. Fair warning, In This House Long Form Means Long Form. It is over 45,000 words, so clear your Sunday afternoon.

Lakeman writes throughout about the overwhelming positive attention, hospitality, and friendliness he received from local Afghans. He relays he wasn't bothered by most Taliban members he interacts with -- mostly they are bored security guards -- although notes at least one scary character. Norms of politeness, friendliness, generosity, and "sovereignty" are mentioned throughout the memoir. As I understand, he means sovereignty as shorthand for the likelihood of an individual of a culture to value a stranger's personal space, which Afghans most certainly do not. A real quagmire for nerdy travel bloggers! The positive attention he received was so great that Lakeman has dubbed Afghanistan the friendliest place on earth-- a title won from previous champ, Iraq.

Is this fun? Unsure, but I'm deleting all the other jibber jabber I wrote about it. General travel thread... and/or travel blog thread.

P.S. If you do read it consider evaluating this claim. "I think there is something to the idea that being – by Western standards – overly friendly and hospitable to strangers is indicative of a collectivistic and tribalistic mentality that in extremis leads to terrible conflict, often intranationally"

P.P.S. Bonus internet throwback Off-Road Trip Through the Democratic Republic of Congo series of forum posts circa 2010 (also long) This one is definitely fun.

Matt Lakeman puts out incredible content. Also as somebody who's done a lot of wrestling and traveling in the Islamosphere I'm a huge fan of the hospitality and courtesy norms. It's just unfortunate it's just not a very good way to organize things at any macro level in the absence of a petrochemical lottery win.

I'm a huge fan of the hospitality and courtesy norms. It's just unfortunate it's just not a very good way to organize things at any macro level in the absence of a petrochemical lottery win.

I think we're being gracious by making sure no guest crosses the threshold without an offer of beverage. If I notice a confused looking tourist I'll try to make sure they're okay and know where to go. I feel good about myself when I do these things.

Here on the other side of the world dirt poor Afghans drop everything to treat a complete stranger to dinner, offer them a place to sleep, and make sure they have a ride to the other side of the country in the morning. They do all this even though they can't communicate with the stranger. It's a major reality check for any pride I have in hospitality. Maybe it's not a great way to organize society, but it's still impressive.

Matt sounds like a social masochist to me. He hates interacting with people, but then insists on traveling alone to interact with as many different people as possible. I still enjoy his travelogues a lot.

Hah! I haven't gotten the impression he hates interacting with locals. He has a strong mind for independence, is somewhat guarded, but he must have higher openness than most to want to do what he does. His own personal hell is probably traveling to Hawaii or Prague with 3 other couples to bicker about the daily itinerary. Now that'd be fun.

Yeah I wouldn't call myself an extrovert by any means but I enjoy solo travel reasonably off the beaten track. Albeit tiny baby steps compared to Matt but I've been to Stans and West China etcetera.

IMO talking to randoms as a traveler is oddly freeing. You don't really have to care about any sort of a longer term relationship, people are surprisingly forthcoming on macro-scale stuff if you just keep asking questions and any sort of moderate misunderstanding is easily waved off for being foreign. If you're on the spectrum having the 'this is the only white person I've seen this year' leeway is kinda liberating.

Lakeman and other travel authors like him is a primary reason why I have decided against "adventurous" traveling myself. Few times I have traveled outside comfortable business/touristy districts of first world cities (hardly counts as "travel"), I have been stressed, generally don't get along with people, and I have been too busy to read extensively on the history of the place, thus no remarkable insights either. Any distilled report of travel experiences by Mr Lakeman is far more interesting and informative than most of the genuine travel memories I possess.

I half-liked The Great Railway Bazaar by Paul Theroux. A more "old-school" travelogue that focuses on the experiences and navel-gazing thoughts of the author, not the kind of critical deep dive to the local history combined with the straight reporting of events that Mr. Lakeman does. Coincidentally Mr. Theroux visited Afghanistan in the 1970s before the Soviet invasion. Apparently Kabul railway was popular with hippies traveling to India, and everyone's preconceptions of "Afghanistan" were quite different than today.

If someone can recommend other authors who focus on the "facts and events" style reporting, please do tell.

A Time of Gifts and its sequel by Patrick Leigh Fermor are very good. Author walks from Rotterdam to Istanbul in the 1930s.

Endorsed, these are great.

I can recommend that. I recall thinking while I read it that, if my son could end up reading Fermor's books without having to stop and look up an historical reference every page or two, I'd consider him a cultured man. I'd also recommend Fitzroy MacLean's Eastern Approaches.

Innocents Abroad by Mark Twain.

Naipaul's "Among the Believers" is definitely a masterpiece of that genre. Also, definitely read the Congo forum posts series OP has linked. It is incredible, one of the most hilarious and captivating travel stories I have ever read. Took me many days to finish though.

In general I think international travel after smartphones+internet is an experience almost unrecognizably different than before. Even if you opt to somehow not use the support of these tools, entire human infrastructure and culture is structured around them in even the most backwards places imaginable so there is really no escape.

P.S. If you want something entirely different, but stil fascinating, check out "Africa Addio".

For me a lot of the historical reading about places is after I've visited, since it can serve to somewhat explain and ameliorate weird stuff or vibes I'd otherwise have been mystified by.

For anyone debating reading that off-road trip thread, do it. One of the best reading experienced I've had online.

Paging @Closedshop.

I decided I need a cologne. My problem is, I hate so many basic scents I have no idea what to look for. To be more specific:

  • I hate vetiver. My wife uses essential oil of vetiver for medicinal purposes, and it smells like someone poured water on a burning birch log.
  • I hate patchouli. My wife had both Messe de Minuit and Patchouly by Etro, and they smelled like a damp, musty, mildewy cellar.
  • I hate... I don't know what's inside Pot Pourri by Santa Maria Novella, but it smells like healthcare. Like some 19th century ointment.
  • UPD Turns out there was a full bottle of Penhaligon's Racquets Formula in my wife's perfume closet that my mom got me a long time ago, and... I hate it as well.

Practically everything from your post features either patchouli or vetiver. I have no idea where to start if I can't stand either of them.

Smells I like: sea, pines (and conifers in general), pipe tobacco, coffee, citrus, chocolate, cherry, vanilla, rain, wild mushrooms, leather.

You caught me at a time bit of a busy time, so I won't be writing full reviews, but I'll suggest a few for you to start off with. I'll try to hit the notes you like and avoid the ones you don't, but I don't know what climate you are in or what situations you're going to be wearing these in, so you need to try these to see if you like them. I also don't have encyclopedic knowledge so I can't hit everything. These are assuming unlimited (within reason) budget:

Tom Ford would be a great starting point: Tobacco Vanille, Noire Extreme, Fucking Fabulous, and Tuscan Leather are some that I think fit into your criteria. Tom Ford is an established house, so everyone will recognize the name, if that matters to you.

Coffee Break from Maison Margiela technically has Vetiver as a note, but I don't detect it at all. It's vanilla-y, creamy, and sweet. It's not a coffee bomb, but I can definitely smell the note. I like this in fall or winter.

Stronger with You line from Armani is another you might like. Intensely and Parfum don't include notes that you dislike, and both include vanilla as one of the main notes. Mainly for cool to cold weather.

Nautica Voyage is actually a pretty interesting pick for you. Smells of citrus and cucumbers, and you can get it pretty much anywhere for $15-20. Completely inoffensive, and you can go a little heavier with sprays.

Baccarat Rouge 540 from MFK is heavy, syrupy, sweetness. Technically leans feminine, but I'd say it's unisex. It's very strong so go lighter on the sprays when in warmer weather.

Bleu de Chanel L'exclusive is essentially BDC Leather edition. Pricy, but a good alternative for every day wear. It's quite nice in my opinion.

Millésime Impérial from Creed is ocean fruits. Smells to me like a summer day at the beach when I have my sunscreen on with a nice watermelon slice. If the price tag makes your eyes water like it makes mine water, try Milestine from Armaf. It's a very close clone (95%) and it costs less than 1/10.

Please feel free to give me feedback as well. If you tried these, let me know what you liked/didn't like. I'm just an enthusiast, not an expert.

Thanks for finding time to reply, man, I appreciate it!

It's interesting how my list of tester bottles that I ordered last night and yours are almost completely disjoint. The only thing in common they have is Baccarat Rouge 540, and only because I've added it to the cart on a lark. Here's what will arrive for personal testing soon:

  • Gypsy Water by Byredo - tried it on a test strip in the store, loved everything. The price made my eyes water, though, no self-respected gypsy would pay this much for anything.
  • Hero by Burberry - didn't get to try it out in the store, one had its tester bottle stolen, the other had a completely dry one, looks like a popular choice. Supposed to be a dry woody fragrance, right up my alley.
  • Autumn Vibes by MMM - another woody and woodsy one. I thought about checking out Coffee Break, too, but I'll explain below.
  • Encre Noire by Lalique - tried it on a test strip in the store, quite liked it, was surprised to learn that it's technically very vetivery. Will have to wait and see how it feels on me.
  • Midnight Musk & Amber by Jo Malone - trying a woody/animalistic mix, since my wife will probably be unimpressed by a purely woody vibe.
  • Escentric 05 by Escentric Molecules - probably the only fragrance that wasn't explicitly wintery, but I wanted to try something that was both woody and artificial.
  • Baccarat Rouge 540 by Francis Kurkdjian - no idea what's coming, just added another tester to the cart.

I haven't added any blue/summer scents to my first list, as I wanted something for winter wear. I also learned that I don't really like obvious sweet notes on test strips, so that excluded a lot of fragrances from my first shortlist. Maybe I'll come back to them later depending on my experience with the 540.

No idea why I skipped Tom Ford altogether, though. I guess I can always include it in the next batch of testers.

I really think Tom Ford can be your house. A lot of their masculine scents should be up your alley considering the restrictions.

I really hope I can provide some feedback by the end of this week, otherwise, I'll have to come back to this topic after Lent

Spendy, but check out https://www.maisonmargiela-fragrances.us I am familiar with their Replica collection, like "Jazz Club", "By The Fireplace", etc.

If you like Margiela Replicas I would recommend CB I Hate Perfume, as well.

Yeah, I've ordered a sample of their "Autumn Vibes" to check out. I also learned today that not all vetiver is created equal. I quite liked the smell on "Encre Noir" in the store, but it remains to be seen if I will feel the same when I spray it on me.

My wife uses essential oil of vetiver for medicinal purposes

What medicinal purpose does essential oil of vetiver have?

Beats me. Helps with skin healing, according to her.

Why do you want cologne? The best smell is no smell, just be clean. I’ve never once had someone walk by me surrounded by a miasma of perfume and thought to myself “How wonderful! How intoxicating!”

@Rov_Scam @TowardsPanna @SubstantialFrivolity

Sorry CHUD,

•You WILL choke on a cloud of my generously applied Drakkar Noir cologne

•You WILL be blinded by the glare of my 10mm gold Cuban chain

•You WILL cope, seethe and dilate in jealousy at my forty-thousand dollar Rolex

•You WILL purchase a reasonably priced certified pre-owned European import sports car from my automotive dealership, subject to in-house financing options

And you will be happy

The thought of this made me seethe ngl

So much cologne. What can men do against such based posting?

You WILL be blinded by the glare of my 10mm gold Cuban chain

I love the term because whenever I see one, I just picture it on an old Miami Cuban dude in a straw fedora and a linen shirt.

  1. Really? When a woman passes me with an enticing perfume I think something very much along those lines. Perhaps with a bit more eroticism.
  2. Even so, perfume and cologne is generally supposed to be personal-space-percieved only. Scent is your strongest sense for memory. It fosters emotional connection between humans, point blank. Absolutely worth the $25/year to have some.

perfume and cologne is generally supposed to be personal-space-percieved only.

Which is fine, provided the personal space is limited to someone who is kissing you. It does not extend to the entire elevator.

When a woman passes me with an enticing perfume I think something very much along those lines. Perhaps with a bit more eroticism.

In other words, you can put it with cars and athletic ability in the category of things men think impress women because they impress other men. I have never once heard a woman compliment a man for his cologne or tell me they liked the smell of a guy's cologne. I have heard a lot of women complaining about guys who wear too much cologne.

We're all sharing anecdotes here but I have historically received dozens of cologne compliments, and still get one occasionally. Other buddies have too.

I also was criticized when I overdid it for a month or two. I think a great deodorant and 1 spray of decent cologne (along with bathing!) is a good combo.

I have never once heard a woman compliment a man for his cologne

I have.

Hell, I've been the guy who's gotten complemented for his colonge!

I'll be the first person to criticize men and women who go overboard, but that doesn't mean people hate it completely.

perfume and cologne is generally supposed to be personal-space-percieved only

When has that ever been true?

There's a good reason why perfume is banned in some places. Pushing your personal preference for smell on others in a way they can't ignore is rude.

I'm saying that by convention you should only be doing 1-2 sprays. It may be more intense in the morning but it shouldn't be suffocating to others.

It's going to be way too strong no matter what.

Really? When a woman passes me with an enticing perfume I think something very much along those lines. Perhaps with a bit more eroticism.

Different strokes, I suppose. I find perfume to be actively off-putting. Thankfully, my wife is not a perfume kind of gal.

Any smell is disgusting and rude, it is the equivalent of black kids blasting music on their phone on the subway. Hard to believe, but the smell of a Yankee Candle store does not give me an erection. I disallow my wife from using any scented products at all.

Disallow her, do you?

Several months ago I was on a train headed to wherever, and I believe a Korean guy sat next to me (Japanese men tend to avoid scents, at least when going to work). The Korean guy was wearing some sort of cologne, or eau de toilette or whatever--the smell hit me immediately. Suddenly I was standing outside a shower where the person exiting had become cleaner than imaginable. To use the word "soapy" would be an injustice to the scent. I wish that I had the gift of describing smells, because this one transported me to a place I did not know existed. I found myself purposefully inhaling through my nose. I felt that I could sit by this man for hours, for the rest of the day, or maybe even life, and not complain. We could be friends, I could accompany him to places as a colleague. Were I slightly more fey I might have even turned to him and asked "Hey what kind of cologne are you wearing?" but I could not summon a way to ask it without feeling a permanent burning shame. This, I thought suddenly, must be what they mean by pheromones.

Yet I did not desire him. Aroma alone was not, alas, enough to alter my sexuality. I've only once smelled this same cologne on another guy, and that was on a down escalator in Namba station. It was unmistakeable. Enough to make me appreciate smell as a sense--we really don't, you know. We so easily forget it when we hold our noses at the farts and Durian and milk that's gone off. We put on masks and take antihistamines against the pollen.

And I've sought out this fragrance, I will admit to you now. I went in a high-end department store and wandered the kiosks, served by heavily made-up, but otherwise very attractive women, or suited, thin men who seemed overly enthusiastic. I tried Diptyque, Chanel, Maison Margiela, a lot of those on the list written by @Closedshop nine months ago. Nothing matched. Maybe it has to do with contact with skin or something. No idea. But I've never found the smell, and I don't even know if I did find it if I could bring myself to buy it. It seems like too much--too much energy, too much might. Like the ring of power, maybe you shouldn't be putting it on after all. Cast it into the fire, Isildur! And what if it only attracted a bunch of middle-aged men? Like I had men suddenly wanting to sit next to me, half-poised to ask me the same question I myself could not ask. That would be not good. What if my wife hated it? Or thought it meant I was trolling for attention from women?

If I could find it I imagine I would keep it all in the bottle, and come home some nights and close the door and uncap it and hold it to my nose, just briefly, like pinching the leaf of a lemon balm plant and smelling your fingers. Just a whiff. Or maybe I'd pour it into a handkerchief and snort it like modeling glue until the high put me on the floor. I don't know. It's hard to project how I would react if I had an unlimited supply of my own. Maybe that is what made it so amazing. Maybe if I did have it I'd tire of it, like a girlfriend. One day the thrill is gone.

As it is at least I know that smell exists out there somewhere, and tomorrow could be the day I encounter it again, though probably not if I am seeking it out by walking through Daimaru or wherever.

This whole wordy post just to say I suppose I get you. I don't like most perfumes. When I passed through the Dubai airport once I felt every Arab man there was doused in Paco Rabanne. It cloyed. And don't get me started on women whose hairspray, skin creme, and perfume create a baroque war in the nostrils.

But I've been to the mountaintop. And I've smelled the promised scent.

Still interesting that you disallow your wife to put on fragrance. I guess she's okay with this?

If you've already gone through all of the designer brands (brands that are not perfume-only, such as Hermes, Chanel, and Dior. These are generally found in department stores such as Nordstrom, Bloomingdales, and Macy's, as well as Sephora and Ulta) I'd suggest you look into niche brands (brands that only create perfumes and perfume themed products, such as room sprays, body wash, candles, and diffusers). I'll try to suggest a few for you. Let me know if you've smelled any of these before:

Byredo Blanche Absolu de Parfum: To me, this is what comes to mind when you describe the scent as soapy. Byredo has a lot of clean, soapy scents, so I'd suggest you try their entire lineup. There are similarities to Lazy Sunday Morning, but to me, this is superior. Speaking of Lazy Sunday Morning, Maison Margiela also has Bubble Bath and Beach Walk, in case you haven't given them a try yet. They both give me a clean, fresh, soapy feel.

MFK 724: This one has specifically been described as clean and soapy. I've smelled it and I concur. I like it a lot, but because I already have a couple of this style of scent, I won't be getting it for now. Along the same line from MFK as well is the Aqua Universalis line from MFK.

Nonfiction Gentle Night: This one is a bit of a shot in the dark (tbh these all are), but Nonfiction is a Korean brand, so there may be a connection. I've smelled this only once, and I do remember it reminding me of washed laundry. I really only remembered this because you said the guy was Korean, but their scents are actually all fairly good. My Korean ex loved this company.

Shiro FREESIA MIST: This is also more of a shot in the dark. Shiro is a Japanese brand and most of their perfumes are of a fresh nature. Freesia Mist leans more feminine, and is slightly off theme, being more fruity and fresh rather than soapy, but to me it smells like a very high quality shower gel. I'd suggest this to you just to try it even if it's not The scent.

Hope you find what you're looking for.

Mission: Activated

edit: Thank you for taking the time to write this up

I wish that I had the gift of describing smells

I also wish you had it, because now I am intrigued.

Tom Ford Extreme Noir

Frankly I like a lot of Tom Ford but that’s my favorite.

I’m really really bad at tasting or smelling flavor / scent descriptions so I’ll just keep it at I love it and I hate wearing cologne and out of the very many I know of (I manage a Dillards) that’s my go to.

Here is the description which may have meaning for you:

Top: Cardamom, Nutmeg, Saffron, Mandarin Orange, Neroli — spicy and citrusy opens with warmth.

Heart: Indian kulfi accord (a creamy dessert-inspired element), Rose, Jasmine, Orange Blossom — rich, exotic floral-creamy middle.

Base: Amber, Vanilla, Sandalwood, Woody notes — deep, glowing base that lingers.

Based on your description tho you may like Tom Ford Oud Wood more.

(List of things I never thought I’d have an opinion on even ten years ago)

I just read IT on my tour of King’s great works. Spoilers below, kinda, but more just don’t bother reading it if you aren’t familiar with the book.

-- Add IT to the list of "Great Boomer literature that's ultimately about relitigating the 60s. Technically the 60s happen mostly off camera in the book, but the cultural conflicts of the period form the moral core of the book and the Boomer protagonists catharsis over their childhood demons. The villains poisoned by Pennywise are vile racists who spout nigger at any passing black, they are homophobes who bash queers just for existing, they are child abusers and bullies and bigots. The Losers' Club protagonists rebel against the eternal forces of evil, overcome it as children, then return and kill the ancient symbolic manifestation of all racism and bigotry and evil. The symbols of Reagan-Era greed and excess, the shopping malls and greedy developers, sink into the pit created when IT is killed. It's a fundamentally optimistic view of history that is very of its era. ((Contrast: on my King tour I just got to Salem's Lot, a decade earlier, post-Watergate era, same "horror author goes back to his long abandoned Maine home town which is being stalked by a demon representing socio-economic and cultural decline" plot, and the ending is much more ambiguous with the protagonist killing the big bad, but his life is ruined in the process, everyone else in town dies including most of the Scooby gang, it's not even clear that they will ultimately clear the town of all the vampires))

You can actually look at the historical cycle, the famed “every twenty-seven years,” and it lines up perfectly to make each occurrence in the work (1985, 1958, 1930, 1903) line up with a Republican president, so maybe IT is just Republicans in the White House according to King. King talked about IT in terms of Reagan’s nostalgia for the 50s, with the story meant to be illustrative of the ways that Americans in the 80s had repressed the sins of 1958. King misses

-- IT is ultimately a book about Noticing. Ben says about the bullying the kids face from other children:

“This alarmed Ben more than anything else. He understood instinctively, as most kids did, that they lived below the sight-lines, and hence the thought-lines, of most adults. When a grownup was ditty-bopping down the street, thinking his grownup thoughts about work and appointments and buying cars and whatever else grownups thought about, he never noticed kids playing hopscotch or guns or kick-the-can or ring-a-levio or hide-and-go-seek. Bullies like Henry could get away with hurting other kids quite a lot if they were careful to stay below that sight-line. At the very most, a passing adult was apt to say something like “Why don’t you quit that?” and then just continue ditty-bopping along without waiting to see if the bully stopped or not. So the bully would wait until the grownup had turned the corner . . . and then go back to business as usual. It was like adults thought that real life only started when a person was five feet tall.”

Which is a metaphor for the entire 27-year child murder monster cycle thing. Mike explains earlier in reference to the murder cycle:

“If I were an insurance man instead of a librarian, I’d draw you a graph, maybe. It would show an unusually high rate of every violent crime we know of, not excluding rape, incest, breaking and entering, auto theft, child abuse, spouse abuse, assault...Derry is a violent place to live in an ordinary year. But every twenty-seven years—although the cycle has never been perfectly exact—that violence has escalated to a furious peak . . . and it has never been national news.”

"How many?" Bill repeated. “Nine. So far.” “It can’t be!” Beverly cried. “I would have read about it in the paper . . . seen it on the news! When that crazy cop killed all those women in Castle Rock, Maine . . . and those children that were murdered in Atlanta . . .” “Yes, that,” Mike said. “I’ve thought about that a lot. It’s really the closest correlative to what’s going on here, and Bev’s right: that really was coast-to-coast news. In some ways, the Atlanta comparison is the thing about all of this that frightens me the most. The murder of nine children . . . But we all know that doesn’t really cut it with the way the world is today. The communication web is there, and at some point the story should have broken nationally. But it didn’t. And I think the reason is just this: It doesn’t want it to.”

The information about the murders is available, each murder and disappearance is reported in local news, and if anyone from outside asked about the murders people would tell them. There's some indication that IT has the ability to prevent people from noticing, or to convince people to turn away, and that might be true in certain cases in the book. But at a larger, town-wide level over decades, the story is one of selection. There's no force field that prevents people from leaving Derry, and some people do. It's noted that during the summer of murder in 1958, a lot of families send their kids off to summer camps. The people who live in Derry and choose to remain are simply those who do not Notice, who are not concerned about it. They don't recognize the pattern, or trust their unease, they just get through it and keep living their lives and accept that certain things happen.

Derry is noted as thriving despite the murders, and leaving aside the blessing of the eldritch blood god living in the sewers, it seems that the blood letting makes the city healthier rather than weaker? The population selected for acceptance of child death is a fully functional city. Maybe the people who are just willing to accept the risk of gruesome death is actually better at living in the modern world than the rest of us, and the cowards who flee from it are the idiots?

-- I'd heard tell of the child-orgy-gangbang thing, and honestly I think people who get politically correct about it are cowards. It's weird to draw a line between what's ok to portray in a horror book and what's not, and put child mutilation murder on one side of the line and sex on the other. It’s a horrifying scene, and that’s the point it’s a horror book. A lot of woke reviews of the book complain about using terms like Rape too much in the novel, because it’s “traumatizing,” and it’s just so weird to me because traumatizing you is kind of the point of the book.

The novel is famously massive, early reviews note its 4lb weight, but weird thing is that when a book is that long is that it nearly always was supposed to be longer. IT was just about at the physical limits of bookbinding. Any longer and it becomes a series, and turning a single story into a series changes the rhythm. It reduces the number of readers who will actually consume the whole story, and how they consume it. Reading one long book is different from reading three shorter books. King clearly wanted to tell this story in one novel, and you can see the remnants of other plot directions that King considered and possibly started but then abandoned or edited out to make the story fit into a single book. Which leads me to my fan theory about the Child Orgy: there was meant to be a second orgy.

The Child Orgy is a symbolic passage into adulthood. Grady Hendrix writing about revisiting IT after thirty years says:

It draws a hard border between childhood and adulthood and the people on either side of that fence may as well be two separate species. The passage of that border is usually sex, and losing your virginity is the stamp in your passport that lets you know that you are no longer a child (sexual maturity, in most cultures, occurs around 12 or 13 years old). Beverly is the one in the book who helps her friends go from being magical, simple children to complicated, real adults. If there’s any doubt that this is the heart of the book then check out the title. After all “It” is what we call sex before we have it. “Did you do it? Did he want to do it? Are they doing it?”

But this isn’t, really, a one way passage. Sinatra sings: “You make me feel so young, you make me feel so spring has sprung.” When adults fall in love, we say we feel like a little kid again. When a grown woman has a crush we say she is “giggling like a schoolgirl.” The climax of IT is built around the adults, on return to Derry, having to regain their childhood memories and beliefs, regain the feelings and gestalt of youth. I think King originally intended the group to have another Orgy, which would bring them back together, reunify them, and take them back to youth. This ties into the other theory I have about abandoned pathways in the novel: there was supposed to be a new seventh loser.

Throughout the 1985 portions of the book, we’re reminded over and over again that with Stan’s death they are one short. Six, can we do it without seven? Seven was powerful, six isn’t enough. Then they lose Mike too and have to do it with five. At the same time, the three non-Loser’s Club characters Originally, I think, Bill’s wife Audra is meant to link up with the Losers’ Club and become the seventh loser, and then participate in a Losers’ Club orgy with the other six to “get back” to childhood belief in things like open relationships.

-- Structurally, IT is more of a fantasy-heroic book than a horror book. Thematically and vibes, it's horror. But really you have the Fellowship form, you have the quest, you have the hero stepping up, you have Gandalf/Mike lost before the final confrontation forcing Aragorn/Bill to step up and lead. King was a big Tolkien fan, and I wonder to what extent he consciously wrote his magnum opus in imitation of LOTR.

I wonder to what extent he consciously wrote his magnum opus in imitation of LOTR.

Do you consider IT his magnum opus? In On Writing, he bemoaned the fact that The Stand is widely considered his best work i.e. he did his best writing 22 years earlier.

I'm starting The Stand next (I watched the old miniseries in pieces a dozen times on SciFi cable growing up), and my exposure to King's writing is limited to IT, Salem's Lot, The Shining, and some short stories. So I might change my mind on that front, and I'm open to being convinced otherwise on any count.

But IT is probably his most iconic work, which is most emblematic of his overall output, and his contribution to culture more broadly. Pennywise was well known to me even before reading the book or seeing the films, where I don't feel like I could reference Trashcan Man or Randall Flagg or Mother Abigail in a conversation. I could definitely expect everyone to get a joke about the sewer clown, even if they haven't actually consumed IT. If you ask a room full of people about IT they'll tell you it's that clown in the sewers that eats children, if you ask about The Stand you'll get less.

Stephen King is mostly famous as a horror writer, though he pumps out a lot of other material as well, and IT is a monster book. Where The Stand might not even be top-5 in apocalypse books off the top of my head, IT is near the top of monster books and influenced every monster that came after. IT is closer thematically to Carrie and The Shining than The Stand is, in my mind.

Also I just looked it up, just by book sales, IT is King's best selling novel, with twice as many copies as The Stand. I've seen copies of IT being read by people in real life, but never copies of The Stand.

So yeah, the clown stands alone, IT is it, the magnum opus.

If you pretend that the last four books didn't happen, I'd say that the dark tower is a pretty strong contender. The drawing of the three and the wasteland blew my teenage mind.

That isn't exceptional. For example, Asimov was an extremely prolific writer - probably the most prolific out of well-known ones, and wrote for over 40 years - and yet the stuff he's most remembered for now are the things he wrote in the 1950s - robots, Foundation, etc. It's not to say the rest of his writings were bad or completely ignored - they enjoyed their success, but they weren't the best.

Indeed. Einstein never wrote anything as good as his annus mirabilis papers. Orson Scott Card never won both the Hugo and the Nebula award again in the same year after Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead. Scott Alexander never regained his magic after he moved to Substack.

From "On Things that are Awesome" by Eliezer Yudkowsky:

(2) I can think of many places where I disagree with statements emitted by Douglas Hofstadter and Greg Egan, and even one or two places where I would want to pencil in a correction to Jaynes (his interpretation of quantum mechanics being the most obvious). In fact, when my brain says “Greg Egan” it is really referring to two novels, Permutation City and Quarantine, which overshadow all his other works in my book. And when my brain says “Hofstadter” it is referring to Gödel, Escher, Bach with a small side order of some essays in Metamagical Themas. For most people their truly awesome work is usually only a slice of their total output, from some particular years (I find that scary as hell, by the way).

(3) Once you realize that you’re only admiring someone’s peak work, you also realize that the work is not the person: I don’t actually know Hofstadter, or Greg Egan, or E. T. Jaynes. I have no idea what they are (were) like in their personal lives, or whether their daily deeds had any trace of the awesome that is in their books. If you start thinking that a person is supposed to be as universally and consistently awesome as their best work, so that every word from their lips is supposed to be as good as the best book they ever wrote, that’s probably some kind of failure mode. This is not to try to moderate or diminish the awesomeness: for their best work is that awesome, and so there must have been a moment of their life, a time-slice out of their worldline, which was also that awesome. But what the symbol “Douglas Hofstadter” stands for, in my mind, is not all his works, or all his life.

Oh I'm aware. I was just under the impression that The Stand was widely considered King's masterpiece, as opposed to IT.

I would just like to let everyone know that they're now releasing Babylon 5 for free on youtube.

The plan being for one episode to be release each week, to let everyone experience how it was during the first broadcast.

I figure people need the nostalgia bomb, to remember when we actually had good science fiction on television.

Amazing! I love that show. Have seen it multiple times. It's the only show I have the files downloaded since it was so hard to find torrented.

Wow that's awesome. I just finished my regular rewatch last year, and it was as good as ever. I wonder whether they'd put the films and the Crusade up too...

I know it'll never happen, but I'd kill for JMS somehow finishing Crusade.

We got a hint as to where they'd be going past season 1, but I'd love to get the full story.

Yeah, I'd pay money for it to happen, but it's not likely it ever would. And unlike some authors that shall remain nameless, we can be sure JMS had the story planned and it did make sense. We'll never know, sigh.

Scott is allowing people to take a spin with a paid AI:

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/ama-ask-machines-anything

I went and asked my own question, but didn't think the paid AI was significantly better than the free AI I'd also asked the same question to.

I'm reading the new Malazan Karsa book: No Life Forsaken and I noticed something strange. The foreword is dedicated to Youtube book streamers and Booktok explicitly. This feels oddly tacky and off-putting. I never really thought of Steven Erikson in that light. Anyone know if this is some new weird parasocial thing authors are doing? Or is Erikson a trailblazer.

Do the Karsa books tell us a lot about the world and plot after the events of The Crippled God, or is it more like side story focused on Karsa?

It almost doesn’t feature Karsa at all. It’s very post CG Malazan empire. The first was more theloman focused, and this second one was very 7th cities focused. This last one had some odd azathani focus that made it feel more like a fall of light/walk in shadow prelude

Whatever gets people to read more.

We took our 17 year olds phone for three days and he started reading Blood Meridian and pondering that he may be a loser - both good things!

pondering that he may be a loser

Heh, I suppose I am removed the youth of these days, video games were ubiquitous in my days but so was reading. I didn't have the super-stimulus of a smart phone available until much later

Huh that feels quite weird for Erikson yeah. I didn't know about that. Excited he's finally publishing the Karsa trilogy though. I love Malazan have read it a few times now.

The first book was good but the themes felt far more heavy handed than his previous works. I'm hoping this second book isn't so... degraded? idk the exact feeling.

Keep us posted. FWIW I felt the Karsa parts, while cool, we're the most morally degraded of the whole series. Well perhaps besides that one part with Toc the Younger... blech.

Different kind of degraded. You are talking morally degraded, and yeah Karsa has super foreign morals. I agree with the Erikson blogpost on the purpose of writing him is, to really bring into the perspective the narrative of "Noble Savage".

I meant degraded in terms of tropes/quality. The first book had this almost preachy take on modern social issues wrapped up into the plot that felt distinctly heavy handed in a way that a high quality author like Erikson should be above. It is also fundamentally at odds with my understanding of his general literary style: he writes civilizations with the dispassionate style of an archeologist(which he is). There's no: "this is right" "this is wrong" only "this is a socio-cultural permutation that could exist, lets explore it in a story". He has overarching themes, but the pro-immigration/pro-refugee stance was so off kilter, so black and white, and so pronounced that it felt like a departure.

Every time I see a section of a brick-and-mortar bookshop called "booktok" I cringe.

I've heard of video games that include a little notice at the start inviting the player to stream the game on Twitch, which strikes me as tacky in the same way.

Tacky, yes, but I'll not blame them for trying to be a bit trendy and get sales/numbers/interest up.

Yeah its the tackiness that seems to impact my mind the most. I feel like its one of these costly signals. Erikson is a well established writer with a well established fan base. One would suppose that he has no need to really engage in the new-rich/tacky/booktok style marketing for a mass market audience. The costly signal for high quality reading material is that it doesn't need to try and be trendy because its quality will make it so regardless. It likely jars me, because it is directly coming into conflict with my estimation, making me re-evaluate

Every time I see a section of a brick-and-mortar bookshop called "booktok" I cringe.

This would make me squirm. I'm now dreading going to my local trendy Brick-and-Mortar. Yeah the game thing feels the same way, it's almost like begging for attention. It would feel actually worse if they directly thanked certain game streamers on twitch by the handles

A bill passes unanimously through US congress, regarding an issuing of coins commemorating the 250th anniversary of the foundation of the US. While it authorizes the 2.50 USD coin only in commemorative quantities, it also directs a study to be conducted regarding it being issued in circulating quantities.

If the latter goes through, the most valuable circulating USD coin would be worth slightly ore than the most valuable circulating EUR coin (2 EUR=2.37 USD).

Weaklings ... make a coin with value e ...

They can’t do that. It would ruin financial derivatives.

Naturally.

I still like my idea for a five-dollar coin better, but this would be an improvement on that status quo if it also retires nickles.

Ban all fractional prices. Everything must be rounded to the nearest dollar. Coins are now one, five, ten, and 25 dollars. The paper bills are now $100, $500, and $1000. I know the government does not like making large denomination bills because of drug dealers, but we really need some back or paper money is just going to be useless pretty soon. Maybe that’s what they want.

That is 100% what they want. In the US there's still that old anarchistic streak alive, but in Europe push for digital money (controlled by the governmental Central Bank, of course) is in full swing. Not sure it'll be successful - when I was in Berlin some years ago, I was astonished how many places didn't accept anything but cash - but they will definitely try to push cash as much to the sidelines as possible.

EU has regulation confirming the availability of cash as a legal tender in the legislative pipeline, though.

The new push for digital euro is about hopefully eventually replacing Visa/Mastercard as digital payment structure (for obvious sovereignty reasons, especially considering the recent events in US/EU relations).

Getting from under the US financial boot is one of the reasons, but I suspect the control that CB would enjoy over any digital currency is another (actually very similar - EU doesn't like US controlling their finances, but they very much would like the same power for themselves).

Of course they do. Governments hate cash because they can't control it. Transactions they can't tax? Trades in illegal goods and services, such as weed or prostitution? A medium of exchange they can't debank you from for wrongthink? Unacceptable! Cash makes the state blind, and that is unforgivable to a bureaucrat. Which is why India declared war on cash.

Given the price level in the US, $5 makes more sense.

We have the equivalent of the $2.50 coin here. It's not as convenient as it used to. A couple years back you could buy dinner in an affordable restaurant with 2 of them, now you'd need 3-4. So it was handy for people who went out and didn't want to risk losing a wallet. (e.g. if you're going running etc). Guess you could wrap some bills in plastic too.. but coins are just convenient.

Considering the utter flop of the $1 presidential coins, I don't see the use of a $2.50 coin.

IMO the coin flopped because most register tills couldn't accommodate any more coin types, so cashiers never provided them as change. Now that the penny is going away, that opens up a slot. There's also now no reason not to retire the $1 bill.

The Eisenhower Dollar flopped because it was too large and cumbersome to be convenient to use. So they replaced it with the Susan B. Anthony Dollar, which flopped because it was too similar to a quarter. They then replaced it with the Sacajawea Dollar, which was similar in size, but which the Mint thought would be distinguishable because of its gold color. Unfortunately, while it was visually distinct it wasn't so much when people are reaching in their pockets for change, so it flopped. Then they started the president series, which they thought would work because of the public interest in the 50 state quarter series. But it didn't have the desired effect, probably because it's easier to get people to collect an existing coin than to rely on collector demand to force the coins into circulation. Since Trump was able to effectively end the penny by simply telling the mint to stop producing them, maybe he could do something similar whereby he tells the Bureau of Printing and Engraving to stop producing dollar bills and print more 2 dollar bills, and has the mint ramp up dollar coin production. But people had been calling for the end of the penny for years, while the dollar bill remains popular, so I don't know that it would fly.

Don't forget that in size and weight they're virtually indistinguishable from a quarter. Were they larger and heavier, like a fifty cent piece or a British pound, I expect they'd be more popular.

I miss silver dollars so much! They are such a great size even the base metal ones are a pleasure to hold. Susan B/Sacajawea/Presidential dollars are so much worse. I wish we could get a nice 2.50 coin with some substance.

Numbers for reference:

  • 1878 silver dollar: 6/7 ounce

  • 1971 copper dollar: 1/3.5 ounce

  • 1979 copper dollar: 1/4 ounce

  • Quarter: 1/5.5 ounce

the most valuable circulating USD coin

Pedantically, aren't Double Eagles still, in theory, legal tender? They're worth far more than their face value, so I doubt anyone uses them as "currency" per se.

There was a case years ago where a shop in Vegas was in court with the IRS because they were paying employees in silver coins and listing the face value for tax purposes. I'm not sure how it turned out.

There's a lot of numismatic coins US Mint is producing. Most of them AFAIK has a nominal value, and I am sure anybody would accept them at this value, without even needing to consider if they are legally bound to do so, given as their actual value is hundreds of times more than nominal. Here's a dollar coin: https://www.usmint.gov/american-eagle-2026-one-ounce-silver-proof-coin-26EA.html sold at $175. If anybody is willing to give me that one for a dollar, I'd take as many as they have.

Another definition of "circulating" could be "its numismatic value is equal to the face value" or "has no numismatic premium". This would then exclude your objection.

Text of bill

The Secretary may mint and issue—

(A) not more than 100,000 $2.50 numismatic coins, each of which shall weigh 4.1795 grams, have a diameter of 0.425 inches [smaller than a dime], and contain not less than 90 percent gold [i. e., around 1/8 ounce];

(B) not more than 300,000 $2.50 numismatic coins, each of which shall weigh 26.73 grams, have a diameter of 1.5 inches [same as the pre-1979 dollar coin], and contain not less than 90 percent silver [i. e., around 4/5 ounce]; and

(C) not more than 750,000 $2.50 numismatic coins, each of which shall weigh 11.34 grams, have a diameter of 1.205 inches, and be minted to the specifications for half-dollar coins.

The Secretary of the Treasury, acting through the Director of the United States Mint[,] shall conduct a comprehensive study to evaluate the feasibility, practicality, and potential public benefits of minting and issuing a $2.50 coin for wide circulation in the United States.

Current coins for reference

Do you prefer apples or oranges? ;-)

IMO, apples taste slightly better, but oranges obviously are far more convenient to eat if you don't have access to a knife (e. g., at work).

  • Dimly glowing brain: Handwritten letters

  • Brightly glowing brain: Typed imageboard comments

  • Galaxy brain: Handwritten imageboard comments (warning: NSFW pop-up ads)

It appears that Death Stranding 2 includes an in-game quokka hologram.

Depends on where you are a bit right? Anything grown to store and ship vs. taste good off the tree naturally entails compromises and some varieties store and ship better than others.

Im from (and currently live in) the northeast US, and particularly in upstate NY, apples are fantastic. I can completely refuse to buy CA, OR, or WA apples and not really suffer for it. Local apples here are much fresher, and we have access to varieties that don’t ship well or are harder to grow or that are lower yield. On our little homestead, we have Macintosh, Macoun, and Northern Spy apple trees. Macouns are great eating apples but I understand they deteriorate more easily than some. Someone said below that honey crisps are overrated. I’d agree, with the caveat that they don’t travel or store well, so they’re overpriced and can be disappointing unless you pick one fresh. There’s a push to create a hybrid that helps - evercrisp for example.

OTOH my wife is from LA and she can’t fathom why anyone would bother to eat most of the oranges we can get here. Just recently I got some shit from her for trying to juice navel oranges for mimosas on New Year’s Day til I reminded her that Valencia or whatever juice orange she prefers aren’t available in January here. We have had good luck with Cara Caras when they’re in season, but when we do to CA for holidays the variety and quality really do make a noticeable difference. But I’m not an orange connoisseur and can’t speak to the comparison of, say, FL vs CA oranges.

I think some of the preferences below follow from here.

Oranges used to taste good.

Not sure wtf happened. (Blight aside)

I prefer a good orange to a good apple but choose an apple almost 100% of the time.

Mandarins are good.

This thread inspired me to get some oranges which are far better imo. Yes they are messy, it's best to eat them over the sink or something. But man the juicy orange meat, whatever it is, is so so good, next level when compared to the more ordinary apple experience.

Do you prefer apples or oranges?

I just really feel like these two things cannot be compared, but I'll try.

Apple in cold weather, Oranges in warm weather.

Apples for baking and cooking, Oranges for drink flavors/additions.

Apples for toddlers and teens, Oranges for babies and pre-teens.

Apples for solitary sports snacks, Oranges for team sport snacks.

Apples mashed for sauces, oranges (or preferably clementines) preserved in water.

Apples, preferably unpeeled but quartered.

Oranges are just a bigger mess.

How the hell do you eat an orange without a knife? It's not a bloody tangerine!

Peel it, separate the sections and eat it?

Mandarins are very easy to peel, but navel oranges aren't that hard.

bite into it to get the first peel going is my barbarian-esque way of doing it.

Some varieties are peel-able by hand if you're strong enough (ok I guess all of them are peel-able by hand if you're strong enough, but I'm talking normal human range).

..you don't?

In…I think it was middle school, I tried cutting into a particularly tough one with a plastic knife. Managed to cut my hand up real bad. Now I always go by hand unless I’m garnishing drinks.

Use a sharp knife. I tried to pry something I should've cut instead with my thumb .. it slipped and somehow my nail manage to make a bleeding gash in one of my fingers on the same hand.

Do you not have thumbnails?

Even if I didn't cut them short, tearing an orange open is just too messy.

If you're referring to the peel, I normally peel oranges directly over something to hold the peel—a trash container or a saucer at home, or a lunchbag or a napkin away from home.

If you're referring to situations where the peel sticks so tightly to the flesh that the flesh breaks and spills juice everywhere when you try to remove the peel, in my personal experience such situations are vanishingly rare.

oranges obviously are far more convenient to eat if you don't have access to a knife

A knife? Why on earth do you need a knife to eat an apple?

Eat the whole damn thing, core and all! (You have my permission to throw away the stem)

Eat the whole damn thing, core and all!

This is the way. Never understood people that need to do complex manipulation with an apple before eating it. Just dig in! You can spit out the seeds if you're inclined too, and the stem is useful for holding it, but otherwise it all goes in.

Of all my time on the motte and its predecessors it is this thread that most makes me feel like i'm living in a different world from some of you.

Come to the dark side, we have cookies optimize All The Things, even the eating of the fruit!

Normally one doesn't, but it can happen. My front teeth are in pretty rough shape from a great deal of neglect in my 20s, such that my dentist has warned me it's possible the teeth could break off entirely if I'm not careful. I don't wish to play with fire, so I wouldn't bite into an apple at this point. But in general I agree with you that there's not a need to cut apples to eat them.

I virtually always prefer oranges. If I can cast my net wide here and include mandarin oranges in that definition, the best ones I've had were the tangerine cultivars in Jeju Island (hallabongs, cheonhyehyangs, etc), which were just sinfully sweet and almost honey-like, I haven't ever eaten an apple that can compare with that.

Also I have never seen someone talk about eating an apple in such an autistic way as this comment of yours.

speaking of autism, I can’t enjoy oranges because of how sticky they make my hands

You aren't supposed to puncture the slices and spill the juice all over your hands.

I have never seen someone talk about eating an apple in such an autistic way as this comment of yours.

To be fair, this is in the specific context of discussing the convenience of eating an apple with vs. without a knife. I hear that some people use the knife to carve off random pieces of the apple rather than laying it on a cutting board, and other people waste time on cutting the apple into eighths rather than just quarters.

It's not irrelevant to the discussion, I just thought the vibe of the comment was funny and is the kind of unnecessarily-detailed comment about relatively mundane matters I like finding in TheMotte.

I don't cut my apples either, FWIW, since apples oxidise stupidly quickly (even just leaving them for 2-5 minutes causes light browning) and biting into a full apple is just satisfying in the way the slices aren't.

IMO, apples taste slightly better

This is heresy! You should burn at stake, you filthy witch!

IMO this is going to depend heavily on the apple cultivar. Oranges beat Red Delicious and Granny Smith hands down. Kanzi and Envy apples are much better, although I might call it close compared to mandarin oranges.

Red delicious are delicious, but only in the fall, the trick is getting this year's crop. They have a pleasant sweet flesh and that bitter skin it's such a complex good flavor.

Golden Delicious (non-bruised, so hard to find), Gala, and Honeycrisp are kings among fruit.

I think they’re considered old-fashioned these days, but I still like McIntoshes.

Honeycrisp is overrated and overadvertised, but Pink Lady and Snapdragon are worth the hype.

IMO the Cosmic Crisp has earned its place in the top tier now.

Don't try to spread your applestasy! It was agreed at the Council of Citrus that the taste of oranges is superior apples.

I've always preferred oranges, in just about any context.

I don't peel or cut apples, so oranges are far less convenient.

I don't peel or cut apples

But it's so annoying!

(1) Hold the apple with its north pole facing left. Eat the temperate and tropic zones from east to west (i. e., from top to bottom, since taking bites is easier with your top incisors than with your bottom incisors).

(2) Hold the apple with its north pole facing downward. Eat the arctic zone (again, using your top incisors). After each bite, you must rotate the apple about its axis.

(3) Hold the apple with its north pole facing upward. Eat the antarctic zone. After each bite, you must rotate the apple about its axis.

This takes forever, in comparison to just cutting the apple into four quarters with eleven cuts (including core removal) and then eating it in eight bites (maybe four if it's tiny or twelve if it's huge).

You can eat the arctic and antarctic zones from the side as well, though it might depend somewhat on the type of apple (Red Delicious would make this difficult due to the thick skin and mushy flesh, but there are plenty of firmer, thinner-skinned varieties).

I once knew a guy that would eat the whole apple, core and all. Lots of apple seeds might be a poisoning concern, but I hear the core is otherwise fine, if less tasty than the rest.

Friend of mine once caught me entirely flatfooted when he just out and ate a whole kiwi, unpeeled.

That's my understanding. I know some cyanide-bearing seeds get through mostly unabsorbed unless damaged (e.g. from putting them in a blender, or chewing them), but I don't know whether apple seeds are one of them and eating any amount of cyanide isn't a great idea.

Technically true, but you'd need to chew down hundreds of apple seeds to feel any effects, and probably thousands to die from it.

I don't recall being on a timer when I want to eat an apple.

Get a load of this guy, he doesn't even time his apples. I bet the Fastest Dump leaderboard at his house is a joke too.

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