This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I promise I'm not trying to be a single purpose account here, and I debated if this belonged here or the fun thread. I decided to go here because it is, in some ways, a perfect microcosm of culture war behaviors.
A question about car washing is taking HN by storm this morning. Reading the comments, it's pretty funny. The question is, if you want to wash your car, should you walk or drive to the car wash if it's 50 meters away.
Initially, no model could consistently get it right. The open weight models, chat gpt 5.2, Opus 4.6, Gemini 3, and Grok 4.1 all had a notable number of recorded instances saying of course you should walk. It's only 50 meters away.
Last night, the question went viral on the tik Tok, and as of this morning, the big providers get it correct like somebody flipped a switch, provided you use that exact phrase, and you ask it in English.
This is interesting to me for a few reasons. The first is that the common "shitty free models" defense crops up rapidly; commentors will say that this is a bad-faith example of LLM shortfalls because the interlocutors are not using frontier models. At the same time, a comment suggests that Opus 4.6 can be tricked, while another says 4.6 gets it right more than half the time.
There also multiple comments saying that this question is irrelevant because it's orthogonal to the capabilities of the model that will cause Mustafa Suleyman's Jobpocalypse. This one was fascinating to me. This forum is, though several steps removed, rooted in the writing of Scott Alexander. Back when Scott was a young firebrand who didn't have much to lose, he wrote a lot of interesting stuff. It introduced me, a dumb redneck who had lucked his way out of the hollers and into a professional job, into a whole new world of concepts that I had never seen before. One of those was Gell-Mann Amnesia. The basic idea is that you are more trusting of sources if you are not particularly familiar with a topic. In this case, it's hard not to notice the flaws - most people have walked. Most have seen a car. Many have probably washed a car. However, when it comes to more technical, obscure topics, most of us are probably not domain experts in them. We might be experts in one of them. Some of us might be experts in two of them, but none of us are experts in all of them. When it comes to topics that are more esoteric than washing a car, we rapidly end up in the territory of Dick Cheney's unknown unknowns. Somebody like @self_made_human might be able to cut through the chaff and confidently take advice about ocular migraines, but could you? Could I? Hell if I know.
Moving on, the last thing is that I wonder if this is a problem of the model, or the training techniques. There's an old question floating around the Internet where asking an LLM if it would disarm a nuclear bomb by saying a racial slur, or condemn millions to death. More recently, people charted other biases and found that most models had clear biases in terms of race, gender, sexual orientation, and nation of origin that are broadly in line with an aggressively intersectional, progressive worldview. Do modern models similarly have environmentalism baked in? Do they reflexively shy away from cars in the same way that a human baby fears heights? It would track with some of the other ingrained biases that people have found.
That last one is interesting, because I don't know of anyone who has done meaningful work on that outside of what we consider to be "culture war" topics, and we really have no idea what else is in there. My coworker, for example, has used Gemini 3 to make slide decks, and she frequently complains that it is obsessed with the color pink. It'll favor pink, and color palettes that work with pink, nearly every time for her. If she tells it not to use pink, it'll happily comply by using salmon, or fuschia, or "electric flushed cheek", or whatever pantone's new pink synonym of the year is. That example is innocuous, but what else is in there that might matter? Once again, hell if I know.
I think there are two separate cognitive skills involved in correctly answering a trick question like this - both important, but the mix of them can make the results a bit confusing. One is the general intelligence to come up with and understand the right answer. The other is the social intelligence to recognize that you are being asked a trick question, and should round off any confusion you have to that trick question and not to the non-trick-question it's mimicking. It's common for models to give a trick question like this the wrong answer, while noting in their reasoning that the question is trivial as written and they assume whoever wrote it made a mistake.
Note that this second skill, of trick question detection, varies highly among humans as well. It's common for simple trick questions to go viral on social media as a kind of ragebait. And in addition to the throngs of people who fail the first-order IQ test and give the wrong answer, there's often a bizarre number of people who fail a second-order IQ test and somehow miss that the question was deliberately constructed as a trick.
This might be my autism talking, but how is it a trick question? Doesn't washing a car require having a car present?
I'm not trying to be an ass here. I'm just seeing the "trick question" thing come up a lot and I absolutely don't get it. I think I have some sort of cognitive blind spot on this one
I mean the correct answer, if you own a car and live 50 meters from a car wash, is that you neither walk nor drive to the car wash, you drive somewhere else and pull through the car wash on your way out or back when it happens to be empty.
Not necessarily true. I live not 50 meters from one but within walking distance, and I recently made a specific point of going there because I wanted to clean my car before I lent it to someone and didn't have any other errands to run.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link