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What exactly is your objection? That Israel attempts to influence the US government? That it lobbies friendly members of the American legislature to lobby the US president? That it spies on people? That it uses that information to improve its influence efforts?
I really would like to know exactly what you believe Israel is doing wrong here and why.
Certainly one could make the case that countries shouldn't try to lobby or influence the governments of other countries. Do you share that view?
Having any influence at all.
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Do you believe it's normal for sitting politicians to collude with foreign spy agencies, including access to classified information that their own domestic intelligence won't share (or maybe can't share, we're just assuming that Israeli intelligence isn't giving any fake information to Lindsey Graham to manipulate him towards Israeli interests after all) in order to manipulate the feds?
I'm not sure I would call that normal lobbying.
Not in the US. Here is the definition of "collude"
Now kindly answer my questions:
What exactly is your objection? That Israel attempts to influence the US government? That it lobbies friendly members of the American legislature to lobby the US president? That it spies on people? That it uses that information to improve its influence efforts?
Certainly one could make the case that countries shouldn't try to lobby or influence the governments of other countries. Do you share that view?
Are you claiming that Israel has done something unlawful? If so, exactly what law was broken? (I won't ask if you believe Israel did something secret, since you said "they don't even try to hide it"
I'm trying to understand your position here, because I strongly suspect that you don't actually have a principled objection to Israel's conduct.
Not him
Yes, especially in ways that are obviously detrimental to the citizens of the United States, and beneficial to the citizens of Israel.
Yes. Do it yourself. Send your own lobbiests to argue on their own merits. Members of the American legislature should be doing things that benefit the citizens of America, not the citizens of Israel.
Yes. Don't spy on us.
Yes. Again, American politicians should be acting for the American people. Not getting (((influenced))) to help the Israeli people.
Yes. Leave other counties alone. Self determination is a virtue.
No laws have been broken, but that doesn't mean it's okay. Given you post here, there are good odds you lean right, thus, there are good odds you find many practices of your society amoral, which are not illegal.
Do you find drag queen-story hour at the library upsetting? Or 12 year olds being put on puberty blockers against the wishes of one of their parents? Those things aren't specifically illegal, so by this logic you can't have a problem with it lol.
Ok, so here's the question. It was reported that Saudia Arabia's senior royalty repeatedly lobbied Donald Trump to attack Iran. How many posts have you made complaining about this?
So I take you object to Jewish Americans and Christian Zionists lobbying the US government to take pro-Israel action?
Perhaps not, but the accusation on the table was that Israel engaged in lobbying which was either secret or illegal. It seems that accusation was false.
Please show me where I stated or implied that if it's not illegal, then it's okay. Please QUOTE me.
TIA.
One now! I dislike this. Fuck off, do your own dirty work if you want it done.
Yes. Do your own dirty work if you want it done. As they used to say on 4chan, "not your personal army".
I am also opposed to a hypothetical extremely powerful and influential Thai-americans lobbying America to get involved in their border disputes with Cambodia. The American military isn't a tool for various other governments to settle scores, it's to keep the American people safe. My safety has not been improved here.
That wasn't me so take it up with him. I think my views are quite internally consistent.
I wasn't claiming any laws were broken, so take it up with the other guy. I was just responding to your question.
You ended your comment I originally responded to with " I strongly suspect that you don't actually have a principled objection to Israel's conduct."
I have now demonstrated my principled objection to Israeli conduct.
Not really -- you did not object at all to similar Saudi conduct until it was brought to your attention and you were specifically asked about it.
So I take it that you object to US membership in NATO as well? Also, how many posts have you made referring to [[Cuban-Americans]] in an ominous way?
It was you who decided to inject yourself into our exchange and pretend I took I position which I never took.
No, here's what you said in response to me:
You pretended that I took the position that "no laws broken" = "ok"
Thus, I am politely requesting that you either (1) show me where I took such a position by QUOTING me; or (2) admit that I took no such position and apologize.
Last time I will ask.
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