This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
General comment on this thread, not a warning for any individual in particular:
Rarely do I see so many reports on posts that are almost entirely "This guy's opinion makes me mad."
The thread is interesting and obviously evokes lots of feelings. What depresses me about it is not any of the discourse about Covid and vaccinations and lockdowns. It's the constant reminder that on a forum where people supposedly value free speech, the average poster still just wants everyone they disagree with to be shut up.
Contemplate that while whining about vaccinations and lockdowns.
I’m surprised that tensions are running so high in this thread (myself included). Meanwhile this forum has unusually civil discussions on many topics that would devolve into nasty flame wars pretty much anywhere else.
I’m not at all surprised. To watch government officials pass draconian restrictions that they refused to abide by themselves; to watch public health officials knowingly and intentionally lie, to see them brag about it on TV, and then to see the world still continue to treat their word as gospel; to be mistreated and maligned for years over an issue on which you were right; to become a victim of the mother of all moral panics; and then to see the perpetrators call for a period of national forgiveness and completely avoid taking responsibility for their actions—all that is enough to radicalize and permanently embitter almost anyone.
But of course the board also has some members who broadly agreed with their government’s approach, making the perfect setup for an acrimonious fight.
No I think what's surpring to some is seeing OP get any criticism on here at all. This board was my primary info(tainment) source on Covid way back then, and throughout the years I had just assumed everybody here would harshly criticise the lockdowns, or at least not get mad when someone does it. I'm really at a loss as to who here would report OP or get mad at it.
I got the impression that anti-lockdowners have been reporting the lockdown defenders’ posts, not that a lot of people have been reporting the OP. Perhaps @Amadan can clarify.
ETA: I see he did clarify below.
I imagine much of the frustration comes come from the middle/common sense feeling eroded- as someone who was mostly anti-lockdown (well pro common sense lockdown, which was swiftly abandoned) it certainly feels like a lot of anti-lockdown people deny COVID ever happened.
Having lived it through it...that's infuriating. I haven't reported but I can see a lot of people with personal experiences (like deaths in the family) freaking out.
"Common sense" doesn't work. "Common sense" gets you to Darwin's argument -- that the disease can't spread if people aren't near each other, so lockdowns are good.
How so? Initial flattening the curve was a real thing that actually helped, public health institutions, cowardly politicians, and Karen energy betrayed the parts that worked and kept things going indefinitely. Banning people from parks and from fucking being outside was nonsense and only made sense (if ever) in dense urban environments). Don't punish people who live in places where shit made sense!
Anger at broken institutions, excess of conservatism and so on? Sure!
Acting like COVID didn't happen? ...tis nonsense.
No, it didn't.
It happened. We had an extremely nasty (by cold virus standards) cold virus going around. The lockdowns, however, were nonsense, and if we'd done none of them, we'd have had basically the same medical outcome.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link