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Because Holocaust deniers (most of them, with the possible exception of the really low information ones) don't actually think it didn't happen.
Maybe you do really believe there were never gas chambers, and that the numbers are inflated, and there are discrepancies in the accounts of what happened in this camp or that camp. There are always question marks and inaccuracies in the historical record and "Holocaust deniers" excel at cataloging these to argue that the whole thing is a hoax. Like 9/11 truthers, like every other conspiracy theorist, it's not that there aren't questions, and things the public believes because they've become widespread knowledge that aren't actually true, or were taken from one particular account (soap made of Jews, for example, or human skin lampshades). So there are always things you can JAQ about.
But "the Holocaust" - a concerted effort to exterminate Jews - happened, and the strategy of the Holocaust denier is to try to convince people that actually the whole thing was fake because record books at Dachau don't match what someone said in an interview, or what have you. The reality of course is that they know the effort was made to exterminate Jews and they think it was a good thing, but they also know that the public is extremely unsympathetic to this and that Jews benefit from the widespread guilt generated by the Holocaust. So it's a political strategy to try to erode belief that the Holocaust happened, not a historical investigation.
This is why every time we talk about the Holocaust, you immediately jump to the specific things you have canned spiels about, like showerheads in Auschwitz and whether Hitler ever signed an order saying "Kill all the Jews." And try as hard as you can to avoid the obvious glaring holes in the narrative, like where did all those Jews go and how are thousands of people, from Nazis to Jews to German civilians to Allied soldiers, lying about what they saw?
If you were actually interested in historical truth it would be pretty interesting to hear you out, but I can't take any of your arguments seriously because to the degree you might have some interesting research about specifics, I know it's always in service of a very specific agenda and that you selectively omit or fabricate details according to whether the narrative serves that agenda.
No it did not. There has famously never been any written document or order found demonstrating a concerted effort to exterminate all the Jews. Such an order never existed and that was not the German policy.
Some Jews were killed definitely in reprisals etc. But there was no "extermination plan" as claimed, that is a lie as much as the gas chamber story.
You are doing, without a hint of irony or self-awareness, the exact thing that Amadan just criticised you for doing.
You just jumped from "was there an organised attempt to kill all the Jews?" to "was there a specific individual document that said to kill all the Jews?", even though that is not the same question at all, and that is exactly what Amadan just said you would do.
There was neither an organized attempt to kill all the Jews nor any orders or written plans to do so. That is made-up propaganda. The lack of any documents is very strong evidence that nothing of the sort was ever organized, and the lack of documents, plans, or written orders for some alleged initiative to kill all the Jews is very well-known.
At which point you run into the question that Amadan and others have asked you in the past - account for all the missing Jews. This discussion has happened before, and the denier position leads to the pretty implausible position that the Nazis hated the Jews, wanted to kill all the Jews, and millions of Jews died, and somehow the Nazis were not involved with the deaths of the Jews. That is facially absurd.
So you quibble documentary evidence in order to distract from and avoid the headline claim - that the Nazi German state killed millions of Jews. I don't particularly care whether or not you can find a memo from Hitler; I care about what happened. And as past discussions have borne out, the evidence that the Nazis killed millions of Jews is pretty darn robust.
What does "account for all the missing Jews" even mean? If you claim 800,000 people were murdered at a precisely known location, but there's no documentary or physical evidence for the claim, it falls apart.
There isn't even a list of names or anything of those alleged 800,000 victims, they are anonymous, which is another dubious aspect of the claim.
Anonymous victims, no documentary evidence for the event, no physical evidence for the event, no bodies or mass graves, no contemporary witness account of the event. Impossible claims of 5,000 people being cremated every single day on primitive outdoor cremations with not a single observation of that operation, the smoke of which would have been clearly visible from Warsaw and even Lublin. No reports from the Polish underground of such an operation who were spying in the area.
Edit: On top of that Revisionists have already proven the Extermination camp narrative and gas chamber narrative was a lie at Majdanek. So there is already precedent for Soviet-Polish investigators lying or being wrong about such an operation at other camps in Poland.
And likewise homicidal gas chambers disguised as shower rooms were initially claimed at the Western camps but disproven after investigation. So what are the chances that all of these claims were proven false at the Western camps and Majdanek, but then they actually happened at Treblinka?
The claim was made in both the West and East camps. The West camps were investigated and the claim was disproven. The East camps were "investigated" by the Soviets and they did not allow Western observers to participate in the investigation. They modified structures post-war and claimed they were original like the gas chamber shown on tour in Auschwitz.
I made those links to previous conversations because I am content with the arguments made in the past. There were millions of European Jews who vanished during WWII - that part is indisputable. This occurred alongside the conquests of a violently anti-semitic government that openly stated its loathing of Jews - that is also indisputable. It's not exactly hard to connect the dots here, and I'm not going to engage you on nitpicking details.
The more important point is that those details are in themselves a red herring, because it seems to me that, as Amadan says, even though you say that the Holocaust didn't happen, your openly-stated positions on Jewish people imply that it would have been a good thing if it had. And you can just say that! This is the Motte - you won't get banned. It's the way you pivot and dissemble that's so frustrating. You can just say what you believe.
It's this:
But this forum isn't the public, and there is no need to strategically lie here. Thus my regularly asking you, "Do you hate Jews?" You know the answer to that question, and I know the answer to that question, but you're bizarrely unwilling to say it, even here, on an internet forum for contrarian edgelords, under the cloak of anonymity, even though everybody already knows it. What is this cowardice?
It is absolutely disputable given the argument relies on subtracting a sequence of highly unreliable population estimates. Ryan Faulk (AKA the Alternative Hypothesis) had an excellent article contending with those censuses:
So all of the historical revisions of Jewish population in Europe have worked to inflate the theoretical death toll of the wartime period- except the 1945 census, they totally got that one right apparently despite the fact it would have been the most unreliable one of all.
It is especially disputable give there is no list of names associated with the claimed 2 million victims of those camps, they are anonymous. Imagine filing a missing person's report for someone who is anonymous, and then demanding the cops find the missing anonymous person- no name, no description, nothing. That is what the Holocaust does times 2 million. The reason there is no list of victim identifications, which would be evidence to prove that people were actually killed there, is because it didn't happen. It is also one of the reasons that Revisionists point out that the ban on any scientific investigation of those grounds is essentially spoliation. If these really were anonymous victims then excavating the mass graves in order to attempt to identify the victims would be SOP. But not only has that not ever happened, not a single mass grave on these sites alleged to contain the remains of two million people has ever been excavated (if they were real they would be the largest mass graves in human history, by far - AKA outliers), Jewish authorities forbid it.
Anonymous victims, no documentary evidence, no physical evidence, no contemporary witness accounts, no contemporary clandestine reports of the alleged cremation operation which would have been clearly visible in the sky to every single person from Warsaw to Lublin, no bodies, no mass graves. The exact same claims made at several other camps are proven to have been false. The story itself is absurd:
900,000 Jews were tricked into walking inside gas chambers on the pretext of taking a shower, then they were gassed with carbon monoxide from a captured Soviet tank engine- a highly unusual and exotic killing method that so happens to resemble ubiquitous delousing procedures. Then they were buried. Then they were unburied and all cremated on makeshift open-air pyres over the course of like 120 days (no less than 5,000 every single day in camps that did not have state-of-the art crematoria like the concentration camps). And then they were all reburied. And all of this escaped any documentary trace. Excavation to scientifically analyze what actually happened is forbidden.
When the Kamloops Children's Mass Graves hoax broke in the news media, I immediately predicted that the Tribes would forbid excavation of those alleged mass graves in order to protect the lie (which is exactly what has happened since, the tribal leaders give the exact same reasoning as the Jews for forbidding excavation to investigate the claim). I predicted that because it pattern-matches to exactly what the Jews did at Treblinka and the other camps. They claimed massively inflated death tolls on the basis of extremely flimsy hearsay and witness testimony and forbade any manner of scientific investigation that any rational person would expect for a crime of this magnitude.
None of us believe the Holocaust because of the evidence presented for those crimes. We believe it because we watched Steven Spielberg growing up, and as children were shown horrific footage of typhus victims and victims of Allied bombings at the Western camps which aren't even the camps that have the real alleged Holocaust mass graves that have never been excavated.
I just said that I was not interested in getting into the weeds of Holocaust denial.
I believe it is telling that you chose to engage exclusively on the point that I said I was not going to nitpick, and chose to ignore the more substantial points regarding your position on Jews.
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