site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   902 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 29, 2026

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

A Canticle for Leibowitz is amazing.

Lots of stories tell you X happened Y thousand years ago, but it doesn't make sense. For example, in A Song of Fire and Ice, where the Night's Watch has been holding the Wall for eight thousand years and the Starks have ruled the north for just as long and I'm like "bro, the oldest organization in the world is the Catholic Church, which is barely two thousand years old, and the oldest dynasty is the Imperial House of Japan, which has been around for fifteen hundred"; talk about medieval stasis!

By contrast, A Canticle for Leibowitz takes place over 1,200 years, and it makes you feel every one of them. Technology changes, fashions change, political factions change, but you can believe that the monastery and the Catholic Church endures, though Rome was nuked in the backstory. It's a very beautiful novel with strong themes of cyclical history and faith. The future imperfect stuff is fantastic; if you liked Scott Alexander's "The Witching Hour", you will love it.

Just do yourself a favor and never read the sequel.

I read that book and quite enjoyed it. Then read the author's afterword in which he details his experience on a bomber crew destroying the Benedictine Abbey at Monte Cassino in WW2. Nazi soldiers were using it as a fortress. It was a stone structure on a tall rocky section and was indeed a fortress. But a 1944 American bomber crew can easily wipe out a 1500 year old fortress by dropping bombs on it.

Turns out those Nazi soldiers had left earlier and war refugees were sheltered within. They accidentally massacred a bunch of noncombatants and destroyed the birthplace of the Benedictine order. Miller says he was reviewing the ending of the book and realized that the priest pinned beneath rubble and waiting for death was something he actually caused. What a finish to a great book.

I don't see any evidence that there were refugees in the Abbey, though it also seems that there probably weren't any german soldiers in there either.

Huh.

I recall him feeling bad about bombing those people. Googling a bit I see claims supporting this.

Didn't even know there was one, huh.

What’s up with the sequel? In general terms please, and spoilers so as not to ruin it for FtttG.

In addition to the other comments, the se-inter-quel also very much has a plot that goes absolutely nowhere. At least that's how I remember it, I read it in 2008 so some time has passed. Still, I do remember much more from other books I've read that year, so that might be a condemnation of its own.

It's just a really ugly book; one that represents a Walter M. Miller Jr. that had grown cynical and disappointed with the Church. It has none of the idealism and hope that characterized Canticle, and I'm not surprised that the author killed himself.

I mean, Canticle took place before Vatican II, and presumably the sequel was written when the church was at its ontological low point.

Yes, I see. Poor man. I thought he just had a sudden eruption of despair, I didn’t realise he’d lost hope to such an extent.

I’m going through the business of getting Confirmed at the moment and indeed the church is startlingly silly on many occasions but that doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats