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I've been asked by a mod to repost this here, so here goes!
What Is The Problem With Women?
We've often discussed, and it seems we will continue to discuss, what is going on in the Battle of the Sexes. I have to hold my hands up and admit that very often in such dispatches, I am the one defending women and criticising the behaviour and the attitudes of men.
But it is also undeniable that some women are fudging stupid. Or at the very least, so it appears. We've argued over "women prefer the Bad Boys to the Nice Guys" but there comes a point where it seems to be sheer self-destruction at work, because how could anyone stick with a guy like the one in this story?
So, to do justice to the gentlemen here with whom I have argued, here is the sorry story of a woman who apparently had not a brain in her head. Her family warned her off, her friends warned her off, even on a first date she knew this was a bad idea - and she still ended up marrying him and having two children with him while he was irresponsible, controlling, and abusive.
Why? I can't explain it to you in any way that makes sense. Even she doesn't know why, looking back. There are some hints that, in line with theories of such behaviour, she was drawn (for whatever reason) to abusive men, like a typical victim who keeps going back to the same kind of relationship after getting out of the last one. But as to what was at work here, who knows? I can't imagine any evo-psych explanation for this that makes any sense at all, not even the "women evolved to tolerate rape because women who resisted rape got murdered when the barbarian horde over-ran the village and killed all the men and took all the women" kind of thing.
An Irish divorce story.
It gets worse from there, until finally she won't put up with it anymore and leaves. Why she didn't run a mile after the first date, I have no explanation. This is a stupid (and indeed, dangerous) choice she made of her own free (so it seems) will. Nobody was urging or forcing her to take up with this guy, indeed it was the opposite. She had plenty of chances, and plenty of warning signs. She got pregnant, of her own accord again, (I strongly suspect the first pregnancy was the usual hope around 'a baby will fix this' and the second time, what, she had no access to contraception? highly unlikely) and brought two kids into an unstable situation where the father had no interest in contributing to the family. It was only when things finally became intolerable that she left.
And I genuinely, honestly can't blame men or The Patriarchy or anything else for this. The guy in question was a shithead but she knew that from the immediate start. There's nothing in her story, as told, about her family pressuring her to get married or settle down with anyone, much less this guy. She did it all herself.
Let me tell the skeleton of a similar story about a good friend of mine. He's a bright guy, pharmacist by trade, musically inclined. Got hooked up with a real psycho. Not "omg my ex is craaaazy", real-deal double digit involuntary commitments, full bore diagnosed and sentenced bipolar. She's cute but not that cute, a solid 6 or 7 on a good day, kinda mousy. The kind of girl who ruins every event she attends by having a very public meltdown, taking bizarre offense to everyone and everything, and clinging to my buddy like he's the only white man and they're on safari.
Nobody liked this bitch, not his friends, not his family, not one single person in his life, and we told him. Luckily he dumped her after a couple months. We threw him a party on the theme of "ding dong, the witch is dead". We got him set up with new dates. They were back together in a month. They would break up and get back together a dozen or so times over the next five years. They had a kid, a lawsuit over custody and child support. Then they got back together, had another kid, got married. Then they separated, got back together, lasted a few more years before getting divorced and what does my genius friend do?
Knocks her up one more time after the divorce was filed.
Now he has to pay her mortgage and see this woman twice a week for the next twelve years, eighteen from when they split.
You can try to suss some deep social thing from this, but my guy had options. He had warnings, blatant and flashing. He was sane and smart enough to understand, he wasn't tricked or coerced. He had other women interested. Some part of her crazy just matched up right with his crazy and he couldn't stop going back to her. He had to be getting something out of it, I figure.
People are bad at relationships, and a lot of us are lying to ourselves about what we actually want and are actually willing to tolerate. I don't think that's an indictment of any higher organization than the people inside the relationship. That said, I think our social models of lifelong partnerships are pretty stunted in popular culture.
Sounds like a classic BPD story? Which is to say, yes, us men often make poor relationship choices as well.
Well, love isn’t really a rational phenomenon itself unless you want to analyze arranged marriages. When I was growing up, the overwhelming majority of relationships and the marriages that grew out of them with my older peers were ‘all’ semi-arranged relationships. And they’re still happily married to this day. The ones who floundered and did the worst were always those who did it themselves and ignored the independent advice and judgment of others.
In trad society, arranging marriages is job for the old women of the family (with assistance of professional matchmakers when family is of means).
The worst horror tales we see in 19th century classic French literature and modern third world happen when father driven mad by greed (or desire for noble title) messes with these things.
That's an interesting take. I've warmed up to arranged marriages as I grew more trad for the reasons Tretiak outlined, but couldn't quite endorse them because of the horror stories you mentioned. This does feel like the missing piece.
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I think anyone who's introspective and tries being thoughtful would come to the conclusion that young adults aren't reliable actors in their best interest in this space. Forget the specific matter for the moment and think even in more general terms. Just looking back 20 years ago I can see so many things today where I say to myself "God how ignorant I was," and today think 20 years from now, how ignorant I'll be right now. The two ideologies of individual happiness and personal choice that dominate civil society today aren't worth the costs people pay when they make the 'wrong' decisions. And that's their words, not mine. When I walk around here, I don't see a lot of happy people. I see people swallowed up by digital distractions, quick dopamine hits, but nothing that's fulfilling and enduring in any sort of long-term way.
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