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They are treated worse, by men they choose. Yet it's a choice. I reject the idea that women as a sex are so stupid they can't help themselves, or that the hookup market is a force that acts upon them with no recourse.
Maybe in the 90s the memeplex around dating was "go grrrl", but today there's plenty of wisdom in the air that men [that they notice first] are not out for the women's best interest. One needs but listen and learn.
The irony is the men that are out to aid and assist women's interests are the ones women hate on the most. You may reject the idea of their complete ignorance in being able to detect the quality traits and attributes of those they choose to deal with, but they absolutely are out to convince you of precisely that. I literally can't tell you how bad some of their choices are.
You want to know if a man is a bad catch? Simple. I can tell you that easily. If a man is tatted like the underpass on the 10 freeway, that's a clue. If a man has been through rehab (or worse yet, hasn't been through rehab), that's a clue. If a man is 30 years old and hasn't had consistent employment, maybe you're with someone who just wants to sponge off you. If a man is physically threatening or harming you, there is never a valid reason that justifies that kind of behavior. Hell, I can tell you if he's a good catch as a teenager without ever seeing him in person. Give me his high school report card and I can sort this out in 20 minutes. Just listen to the kind of people you come across. How ignorant can you be to not see things like this?
That's the question I asked with the story of the divorced Irish woman from a little while ago. All I can think is that sexual attraction is one hell of a drug, worse than heroin or meth or fent or crack or all of them put together. It turns your brain to mush and you can't literally see what is in front of your nose when your hormones are all addled with "I have to be in a relationship, will I ever get anyone, the years are going by" plus "this guy is charming and interested in me". You end up ignoring "okay yeah so he hits me sometimes and is verbally and emotionally abusive and a loser and I'm the one supporting the household and kids, but otherwise everything is just fine!"
I swear, with all the failures in my life, the one thing I am absolutely thankful for is that I never, ever, succumbed to romantic love. How fucked-up would I be right now if I were running like a bitch in heat after some guy, any guy, please somebody stick with me I don't want to be alone?
I have a stronger drive and appetite on all levels than a lot of people I know. Whether it’s food, sleep or sex; and it took me a very long time to learn how to control it. My father used to call it my “obsessive need to consume.”
It makes sense why you would tolerate someone’s faults when you’re in love with them. Forgiving people for their sins and mistakes is part of my charter and it absolutely doesn’t come easy. But we shouldn’t be quick to associate people’s mistakes, faults and imperfections with abuse.
I was never one of those people who was afraid to be alone. I’ve learned how to live on nothing but my own two feet and have practiced it for decades. I used to tell people “if you can’t tolerate being alone, it’s only because you’re in bad company.” (i.e. you suck as a human being). If I woke up tomorrow morning to a ghost city, with everyone having disappeared but me, left to wander the streets, it wouldn’t cause me much sorrow or grief. I’d say to myself, “damn, it sucks that so-and-so isn’t here to see this…,” and I’d miss my family and friends, but I’d get along just fine by myself.
In love, I was raised according to the conventional norms and stereotypes of the 20th century. Marriage is about love, primarily in the context of family life and family formation. I don’t want a “business partner,” or “partner in crime,” or be the “hang-around-er,” that never left. In a relationship, as a man, I want a wife and kids. That’s my purpose that I was raised and built for. I know what that entails, I know what it demands of me and requires me to sacrifice, I know it’s a lifelong endeavor that you can’t back out of and I accept the costs. For me it’s always been an easy choice because I think I have a more correct frame of mind than a lot of other people do.
I think the problem is we have replaced love in that context with self-fulfilment. Love is romantic love, it's not "we're spouses, we're parents, we've built a life together, we stay together and don't jump ship at the first rough patch". So once X or Y has 'fallen out of love' with Y or X, then it's time to shut it down and move on to the new partner Z. Oh, the kids will be fine, they'll adjust!
I think love changes as it matures, but if someone confuses the first fizzy giddy romantic feelings of new love as how it is supposed to be and should remain like that forever, then they are not going to be able to cope with "oh but I don't feel the way I used to feel" and then we get the whole no-fault divorce and constantly moving on and looking for the next best thing and distrust between men and women that we get now.
This, of course, is different from abusive situations or marriages where one or both parties are not able to handle the demands, where the best thing indeed may be to separate.
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All humans are so stupid they can't help themselves. Thankfully they are never truly alone.
This is why wise leaders create institutions so that everyone helps each other reach higher Nash equilibria and we avoid the tragedy of commons.
One of these institutions is marriage, which among its many benefits (the thing is truly so neat it is rightfully associated with the divine) solves the problems we are talking about by taking top men out of the market and enforcing monogamy and certainty of paternity.
However marriage has sadly been abolished and forbidden by no fault divorce. This has evidently turned us into savages.
The simple fix is to allow people to marry again and encourage them to reenter civilization.
...Tune in next time, where we will solve rampant crime with wooden beams, rope and a wig.
<De Maistre Hat>The authority of marriage collapsed before the no-fault was the law. Before no-fault was the law, people would get around the fault rules by perjuring themselves. Only through the organic growth of successful subcultures will no-fault divorce once again be the social norm. </De Maistre Hat>
I'm glad to see I have some followers around here.
In practice, a truly no-fault divorce free marriage in the modern world requires a subculture in which every single one of your friends and acquaintances testifies against the spouse who wanted the divorce. The only successful ones so far have been religious.
Ah man it's almost as if there's a social need for religion which would explain why all successful human societies had it to some degree.
I sound sarcastic but I'm genuinely bummed out that the humanist project of reason just doesn't work. We actually can't free ourselves from society and live blissfully in the rekindled state of nature. We can't just act rationally without our trembling hands tied by a higher power.
I feel like Lazar Kaganovich, the last Old Bolshevik, who joined the Communist party in 1911 and lived through the whole of Soviet history up to 1991 to die a few months before the fall, his last words being allegedly: "This is a Catastrophe".
That's about how I feel about sex relations at this point.
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Well, listening and learning is hard enough for anyone, but I think there's a catch-22 here that's specific to this situation, in that the people they need to listen and learn from in order to avoid these pitfalls are people that they, almost by definition, don't respect or even notice. I do agree with you that it's entirely the personal responsibility for someone, woman or man, to avoid people who are romantically harmful to themselves, and the negative treatment of women in this context is the responsibility of the women who choose to tolerate or even reward such treatment. But I don't think they can help it any more than men can help being attracted enough to skinny, youthful women that they enable awful behavior from that set.
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The issue is that it is far harder for a woman to compete when other women are engaging in that type of behaviour. If all other women are doing things to grab attention it is difficult for women who don't
Most men I know are attracted to a woman who doesn't have a vain desire to stand out above everyone else. I certainly am not attracted to attention whores. The more she acts like one the less interested I become overtime. When I was in high school there was a very attractive girl who liked me who lost me on behavior alone, pulling shit like this. I really have no idea how some of them manage to think that leading like a ho is something that’s going to inspire attraction and affection. It’s disgusting and repulsive.
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If only it were illegal!
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I totally disagree with this. With so many women chasing so-called "Chad" it's become very easy for a woman to find a guy who has solid morals; a decent job; and genuine desire for a long-term committed relationship. Provided she is willing to overlook the fact that he is short; or balding; or mediocre in facial attractiveness.
Exactly. Also the nature of dating apps means that the territory of a given 'chad' has expanded exponentially and their mindshare of the market has thusly increased. Plus it gives a sense that the pool is a lot wider and deeper than it is so if something's not perceived as a perfect fit you should just keep drawing lots.
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In other words, it hasn't gotten any easier for women to find a mate who has solid morals; a decent job; and genuine desire for a long-term committed relationship.
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They don't all have to compete for the top fuckboys. And seeing as we appear to have established that actually attracting the attention of the fuckboys then getting used in a situationship is bad for them, it should be a relief to quit the attention whoring race and get herself someone more her speed.
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