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Another indicator that AI is a bubble. Anthropic just released Claude Opus 4.7, and users are reporting significantly higher token burn rates (and therefore costs) for what appears to be a minor improvement over Opus 4.6. Discussion on Orange Reddit is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47816960 and a tracker of the increased token burn rate is here: https://tokens.billchambers.me/leaderboard
The token tracker is based on user reporting, but has been fluctuating between 37% and 45%.
Even if AGI is actually possible with LLMs (or at all, but I'm not trying to start a discussion on metaphysics here), it looks like the capital needed to achieve it is drying up before it can be reached. Anthropic's move here (combined with them handicapping Opus 4.6 a few weeks ago) seems to clearly be an attempt to achieve profitability. The free/subsidized rate train for end users has pulled into the station, and now you have to pay more for the same (or worse) capabilities you were enjoying before.
I normally don't care much for the median Hacker News commenter (if me calling it Orange Reddit didn't already give that away), but I do find them to be a useful barometer for general sentiment in the tech industry. And a few months ago I would have said roughly 60% of HN users were AI believers/enthusiasts, 20% neutral or unsure, and 20% anti/negative. Anthropic's antics over the last few months (and Sam Altman's antics for his entire life) seem to have soured their views significantly, and I see this as a big sign of a sea change in sentiment about AI in the tech industry.
At least for me personally, I just hope this leads to less retarded mandates from my higher-ups about using AI X times a month etc. (we're literally tracked on usage and it can affect our raises/bonuses).
For everyone here, nut perhaps especially the AGI believers, have your feelings changed at all over the last few months?
I’m not convinced it’s a bubble. It might be, but gaging that from random commentary on HN isn’t a good way to figure it out. There are all kinds of reasons that sentiment might be going south, a lot of it being that people are expecting it to come much faster than it actually can. Early LLMs fed this in my view because at the start minor changes were big improvements. Going from an AI that could barely understand a simply question to one that can write an essay on a topic was quick, maybe 3-4 releases. If it takes 6-10 to get AI to get you a publication worthy book on the topic of the query, I don’t think that’s a problem for AI — which will eventually get there — though it probably means a much harder time getting funding to work on the next projects.
My current layman's opinion is that the current environment is a bubble, but that bubble is entirely independent of the technology itself.
It's clear that at least some people, in some circumstances, are getting value out of the technology. It's not like NFTs, where even the best use cases are better served by simpler, pre-existing tech.
That said, the current economic environment is baffling to me. Every big provider is acting like this is a zero sum game where one company winning will give them a monopoly forever. They're also acting like the progress curve will produce exponentially increasing capabilities forever while operating costs approach zero.
I'm not sure if the market as it stands can achieve profitability that justifies the current AI company valuations if there are 3-4 winners instead of one. They're all priced with the assumption that one of them will utterly own the most transformative technology since the steam engine. If that's not true, people are going to start asking why they're not getting a 10% return on a company that has a 20x P/S ratio. Once people start asking that question, it's going to get uncomfortable for anybody that's not a monopoly already.
They're taking on significant debt, too. Take meta, for example. If just one of their data centers has a twelve month delay, that's a ~3% hit to free cash flow to service debt on an asset that isn't making any money. When was the last time that you saw a construction project more complex than a doghouse finish on time and on budget? Even if they finish construction, there are significant delays getting them powered, and gas turbines aren't a permanent solution. There's pretty enormous systemic risk there. Some companies are better equipped to handle it than others, but none of them are immune. Oracle, in particular, appears to be laundering questionable debt through their investment grade credit rating, which is unlikely to end well for them.
That said, even if Anthropic and OpenAI shit the bed and contagion through the bond market causes a market crash, and Google puts their research back on the shelf, LLMs don't go away. Local models exist. China is still plugging along with much more reasonable objectives.
I don't know exactly what the future holds, but either way, it'll have LLMs in it.
As another example of that, consider the dot-com bubble: the internet didn't go away when the companies failed.
The comparisons to the dot com and railroad bubbles concern me sometimes.
A railroad line can last centuries if properly maintained. Fiber has a 20 - 50 year lifespan. They were both totally usable by the time everyone finally got over the mania. I'm not sure the same is going to be true about GPUs. The data center physical structures will exist, and maybe the power infrastructure, but even the (IMHO optimistic) projections on GPUs show a 6 year depreciation schedule.
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