This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Tokyo, one of the best big cities in the world is filled with apartments. From tiny cheap ones next to the stations for young folk who are out and about all day anyway to bigger ones for families where the kids can get their own rooms. Apartments can be great, we've just decided we don't care.
And so many of the issues I see listed with apartments are completely fixable. Like one of the main complaints I see is noise, and I get it. I hated having upstairs neighbors but that is not inherent to apartments, that is just because we don't do sound insulation properly. It's insane to me that we over regulate basically everything else and drive up the costs of building to an insane degree and then with the biggest complaint apartment dwellers have we just shrug and go "oh well, nothing we can do". Sound insulation is not some new technology, we can make apartments that are quiet no matter how much your upstairs neighbor stomps. We just don't.
This is the case with so many problems people got about apartments. Completely fixable, but instead we're wasting money on pointless regulated shit like second stairwells and parking minimums way over the amount of occupants.
The noise I had to suffer in every single housing unit in the US (whether apartment or free-standing), due to your HVACs routinely sounding like jet engines and fridges like idling trucks, not to mention even wind and rain being loud due to your paper-thin walls and bad windows, is well in excess of anything you hear in a half-decent European apartment in a major city. In Germany it probably would be sufficient grounds to drag your landlord to court and have your rent slashed.
On the other hand, if you have your own house, you can have a quiet A/C unit put in.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Honestly, my takeaway when I visited, expecting an unending sea of apartments was that I was surprised at how many freestanding (small footprint) single family houses Tokyo has. They exist within walking distance of even the densest city centers. Plenty of them only slightly larger in footprint than the single car garage they stand on top of.
Also lots of small multi-family houses, seemingly where a single small-footprint house was presumably replaced with a five story (ish) walkup.
Tokyo is constructed very differently from European Metro centers, and both are quite different from American ones.
More options
Context Copy link
I'm not saying that the apartments are why Japanese people have given up on romantic relationships, but "Tokyo does it" isn't a strong argument when the concern is with family formation
More options
Context Copy link
Specifically, typical US code requires a sound transmission class of at least 50 between apartments, but at least one study (found via this article) has found that an STC of 60 may be a better threshold.
It requires a 50 but there's basically no actual testing or enforcement of it done so STC ratings in the real world are often much lower. In part because even a tiny mistake can dumpster the rating. https://www.slrconsulting.com/insights/the-devil-is-in-the-acoustic-details-part-two-acoustic-caulking-wall-joints/
Because there's no actual require testing and enforcement of insulation, so many buildings just go wasted.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Correct, it's inherent to neighbors.
Well.
Certain neighbors. The ones I pay handsomely not to have anymore.
Hey, you know something else interesting about Tokyo? It's virtually entirely ethnically homogeneous. At least compared to your average European city where Europeans are the defacto minority.
Big if true. How did you arrive at this conclusion? (I want to check for myself.)
Whatever numbers anyone supplies you with - please keep in mind that the natives are old, and the foreigners are young. Even if there are many natives left on paper, they aren't the ones who dominate the streets.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It is insulation quality, not neighbors.
Sound insulation can make even the loudest neighbors playing a boombox basically unnoticeable, while leaky insulation (or lack of insulation) can make even basic everyday noise echo and amplify. And when very minor mistakes dumpster sound insulation quality, many people are left thinking that noise is just a part of life when it's really just shit construction.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link