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Why do a lot of women not like acknowledging the practical aspects of dating? By this I mean that women appear to be put off by me simply discussing:
Of course I'm not discussing these topic with women I'm trying to actually date, I'm not that autistic. But if you're trying to actually find a partner to settle down and have kids with, how do you not take all of these into account? Not only does it reek of impracticality, but on an even deeper level, it appears that any attempt to practically model the dating world at all produces a negative female reaction.
(Maybe it's because some of these women don't ever intend on having kids and therefore don't ever have to be realistic about dating.)
Men talking about dating in a strategic manner or discussing it as a market-based supply/demand-driven matching process ruins women’s Disneyian notion of courtship and romance as a FUN, magical process that Just Happens. Courtship and romance are things that Just Happen to women like acts of God while they passively exist, so there’s no feedback cycle to disabuse them of such a notion aside from the possible exception of men talking about it.
On top of the fun and magic aspect, women are quite sensitive about 1) signaling and protecting their own personal Wonderfulness and 2) signaling and protecting the Wonderfulness of women as a whole. Men discussing dating in a practical manner may say things that are perceived to be unflattering to women’s Wonderfulness.
Kind of like how, in talking with a four-year-old about how presents get under the Christmas tree, explaining supply chain logistics and household finances takes the fun and magic out of it. The child will actually feel better about and be more satisfied with some platitudes involving elves, Santa Claus, reindeer, and chimneys. At least children aren’t as sensitive about their personal wonderfulness or the wonderfulness of children as a whole, so such discussions are easier to navigate.
Men discussing and/or practicing looksmaxxing is toxic, problematic, and misogynistic as it implies that women are shallow and primarily value appearance. In contrast, if women spend a lot of their effort and energy on makeup and clothing it’s because they’re victims of a misogynistic culture that Socializes them into thinking they’re only valued for their appearance.
Additionally, women want naturals, not someone who looksmaxxed their way to trick some poor woman into dating an imposter. See, for example, how much the thought of men getting limb-lengthening surgery (or even just wearing lifts) triggers ick and seethe in women. Or the thought of men strategically exploiting social media to inspire female mate-choice copying (which totally doesn’t exist by the way, since everyone knows women are strong and independent thinkers and could never fall for such a thing).
Relatedly, women hate the thought of men grinding approaches to gain EXP, or grinding approaches/shotgunning messages to play the numbers game. Surely each woman is infinitely unique in her Wonderfulness and women cannot be treated like hack-and-slashing monsters for item drops in a video game.
Many women get butthurt that a large part of women’s bargaining power with men for long-term relationships and marriage is the prospect of children. Women are clearly so Wonderful that men should want a lifelong commitment with them even without such a prospect. He’s TA if he wants biochildren when he can just adopt or enjoy the privilege of being with her without children in the picture (ugh, stupid men and mUh lEgAcY). Women also don’t like reminders that having their FUN and FREEDOM when they’re young before settling down after they’ve Had Their Fun can have opportunity costs—or that their desirability in general goes down with age, such as illustrated by the infamous OKCupid graph or the Bruch-Newman paper.
This is very true, and it’s not even primarily because of the genetics. It’s because men who get hot later in life are to the man bitter about it. They mourn the imagined youth (including plenty of casual relationships in high school and at college) they missed - in the end, even if they find a pretty wife who they like, they are more likely to cheat, and they will always be bitter they didn’t date around and enjoy attention from women in their youth. There are women who get hot in their late twenties or early thirties who are similar, but it’s less universal - they are more likely to just be happy they ‘made it’.
If you are going to marry an attractive man it’s always best to find someone who had a girlfriend (or several) in high school, because he does not have the same regrets as the late bloomer. Sure, there are lifelong lotharios who will never be faithful, too, but you can weed those out in other ways.
Do you have evidence to back this up or are you mainly going by your general observations and common sense? I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, but here's what my general observations and common sense say:
Based on your description, one could divide men into 4 categories: (1) the high school loser who gets hot later in life; (2) the high school loser who remains undesirable; (3) the high school hottie who fades in desirability (we all know people like this); and (4) the high school hottie who remains desirable.
In my view, guys in groups (2) and (3) who marry are less likely to sleep around on their wives. Because I think that to a large extent men cheating on their wives is a crime of opportunity. If a guy is attractive, and women start throwing themselves at him, there's a good chance he will give in to temptation even if he's already in a relationship. It seems that in your view, guys in group (4) are less likely to stray than guys in group (1), but I'm skeptical. Because as I mentioned, male infidelity is -- to a large extent -- a crime of opportunity.
Simply put, my general observations and common sense tell me that when a guy who gets hot later in life cheats, it's mainly because he got hot later and life and not because of his past.
But if you have evidence or argument that guys in group (4) tend to be more faithful, I'd be interested to hear it.
I don’t know that men in group 4 tend to be more faithful. Rather men in group 4 tend to know what they want and the kind of man who has been a lothario since he was 15 is usually relatively easy identified. Women who marry men in group 4, Hillary Clinton types, usually know what they’re getting into. The same isn’t necessarily true if you marry a group 1.
Well, I think that's what you kind of implied before:
Edit: And by the way, I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, just that I would be interested to hear the evidence/argument for this idea.
I've actually heard this kind of argument from before, but from the reverse perspective. i.e. "Don't marry a slut because she's developed an appetite for D so she'll cheat on you" versus "Don't marry a virgin because she'll feel like she missed out and so she'll cheat on you." You can certainly argue it either way.
I think the general rule is that once you have crossed a line it's psychologically easier to cross it again. So I am tempted to say that if the choice is between (1) guy who is recently hot; and (2) guy who was hot all along, you are better off with the first option in terms of fidelity. But I think that at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, because the male urge for variety in sexual partners is just very strong. So that a very large percentage of married men who are desirable enough to have women pursuing them are going to stray.
Fair, I could have been clearer. I mean they are more likely to cheat if they are in a supposedly monogamous relationship. This is because the lifelong lotharios tend to be relatively obvious. They have reputations. They mostly know what they like. If they settle down, it is either with an earnest effort at monogamy after a long period of promiscuity, or it is with a woman who (on some level) knows what is going to happen. The man who becomes attractive later in life might settle down with the first pretty girl who looks at him twice, and only thereafter decide he wants to play the field, which is a failure mode the lifelong lotharios who settle down in their thirties or forties experience less often.
Well I think this basically boils down to "if you marry a man who is highly desirable, there's a pretty good chance he will cheat -- even if he doesn't have a promiscuous past." Which is probably true, but it's not the guy's past which is causing him to cheat or not, it's his current desirability.
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Yeah, it sounds to me like the things some of my rural relatives say, that we should vote for politicians who have already been in power for years "because they've already stolen enough", while the new guys are not rich yet, so they will start stealing more. There is no such thing as having stolen enough and stopping. As the saying goes "the appetite comes with eating". In relationships, I just don't see any guy saying "I had a lot of awesome sex 5 years ago, therefore I don't desire it now".
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