This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
But see! This is the problem here. It'd be a sign that your wife is currently seething in jealousy! Your relationship is forever changed whether the test happens or not.
Let's look at the different worlds:
World 1: Wife does not ask for 'fidelity' test.
Possibilities:
World 2: Wife asks for "fidelity test"
Possibilities:
The possibility where your marriage is happy is gone now. Your marriage is different and you can't go back.
Given the responses from the Male Motte, the most I can say is that male and female intuitions on this topic are just diametrically opposed.
You've never had a woman pull the "I'm mad because I had a dream where you cheated on me" thing? Many women seethe in jealousy all the time for very little reason (and perhaps often secretly enjoy it for its own sake - jouissance). "Sure babe, q-tip my dick and send it to Labcorp" would be a very satisfying response, even if it doesn't address the deep underlying psychological cause of why she's mad about dreaming that you cheated on her (which, 90% of the time: she's bored/stressed/unfulfilled and subconsciously decided starting drama would be a fun distraction).
More options
Context Copy link
For the record, I donโt think these intuitions are very much opposed at all on a male/female level. Everyone wants their spouse to trust them. This site just selects for a very particular type of person.
More options
Context Copy link
Not really. It could be a phase for her. A momentary lapse in unconditional trust is not a thing that must ruin relationships, and I don't believe in unconditional trust anyway. What, if your husband one day starts giving off every single sign that he's cheating on you, basically everything other than straight up you catching him in the act, you wouldn't be jealous? As the other poster said, in today's world the man's unconditional trust risks him much more than the woman's, besides.
The problem is your wife is suspecting you're unfaithful. That is a problem! Yes, once that problem is there, then you have no recourse but to solve it.
But in this thread it seems people are recommending men make a habit of asking their wives for paternity tests with every child even if there is no real reason to be suspicious. And I can tell you, it would not go over well and neither should it.
You're trying to eat your cake and have it too.
If there's no real reason to be suspicious and it's just "I'm supposed to do this anyway", then the wife would be wrong to take it as meaningful distrust, and shouldn't.
If there is real reason to be suspicious, then he definitely should be asking, and she would be in the wrong to take offense at the possibility which by hypothetical is realistic.
Not all wives are like you, by the way. I didn't ask for a paternity test and don't snoop on my wife's phone, but this is directly related to the fact that she wouldn't object if I did. Likewise, my wife wouldn't ask me to take the fidelity test, and this is directly related to the fact that I'd happily take it to ease her concerns.
Sure, I'd be a bit concerned that she felt a need to ask in the first place, but the next step for individuals worthy of the trust is "Of course I'll help you verify, and you absolutely have the right to expect verification".
I feel like people are responding to something I didn't say.
What I did say: I would be ok with paternity tests becoming common place and routine as just a normal part of a hospital birth. In such a world, there is no reason to take offense. But in this world, a specific husband asking his specific wife is obviously offensive to her.
What I am responding to is stuff like this comment, where people feel like every father should ask this of his wife at every birth before agreeing to be on the birth certificate, regardless of any evidence of cheating.
If you ask your wife for a paternity test... your relationship is going to have problems after. So don't do it unless you already have problems.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I think it's more that people who were in an unhealthy relationship have a warped sense of what is acceptable. Like you, I would be very upset if my wife demanded a proof of fidelity out of nowhere (say if she wanted to randomly inspect my phone to make sure I didn't have any untoward text messages on it). That isn't something which should happen in a healthy marriage, and if it comes up at all, the marriage has problems.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link