This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Uh.. Probably more lax than in the West? The important exams, like the NEET/JEE or the post graduate NEET for higher training in medicine are heavily proctored and surveilled. Cheating there is extremely difficult, and usually takes incredible levels of gumption or a dedicated cheating ring and bribery. That is not the norm. If you're caught, you're screwed. Barred from the test. Legal action.
It's far more heterogeneous when considering all institutes of higher learning. I have only attended one med school, after all, and I can tell you that people were caught and subject to disciplinary action for cheating on the test. Of course people try to cheat. I can only point out that they can and do get caught and subjected to serious punishment.
Funny story, a very good friend of mine was unfairly accused of cheating during our med school finals. She'd taken a box of stationery with her into the test, and forgotten that she'd left in a tiny strip of paper with a list of things to revise (chapter names and page numbers) from last night. She was subject to a random search during the med school finals, this was detected, and she was sent to a disciplinary committee with accusations that she'd been carrying a literal cheat sheet. I wrote a letter defending her, which she shared with the board. They were flabbergasted and asked her if she'd hired a lawyer. Nope, just me. I suppose you'd use ChatGPT for something like that today, but back then it was just ChatGP-me.
If it makes you feel better I actually cheated on behalf of a younger cousin.
Years ago before ChatGPT was a thing, she approached me one day yelling, “Cousinnn! Please I need your help!,” begging me to write her finals essay that was due literally the very next day (that she hadn’t even started… at the end of the school year…), which took the form of arguing a position on a particular issue. So I sat down at her computer that night and spun out a 12 or so page essay, properly formatted, footnoted, the whole 9 yards for her to turn in tomorrow.
Turned out she didn’t even read the original assignment at all; she was too busy partying the whole school year. One of the requirements of this specific essay was that it had to be read, explained and argued out loud, in class, on the day. When the day came and her friends were all sharing what they wrote, they looked at hers and said “there’s no way you wrote this…” She was insistent that she did. But she got up to read hers aloud, she was slowly pronouncing words, and later texted me and says, “what the hell are you saying!?” I told her “Just hold your head high no matter what! Act like nothing, 😤.”
The teacher wanted her to stay after class and demanded to know where she plagiarized it from. She said she didn’t, she wrote the whole thing and it took her a lot of time. Then they said they’re going to thoroughly research where she got it from and she was going to get an F. The word I later got back was that the teacher was frustrated and mad as hell because they couldn’t figure out where it was plagiarized from (it wasn’t plagiarized, it was original work; I wrote the whole damn thing), and he gave her an F on it anyway. She was so upset she took it to the administration and got it reversed so she was able to get a passing grade for the class; but I was pissed off if the teacher was going to fail me, I wanted to walk in there myself and demand a passing grade; because I was damn proud of my work.
I have to ask, in hindsight, were you trying to fail your cousin? Because it's pretty funny.
No, I was seriously supporting her to get her to pass (which she did); since her lax attitude throughout the school year left everything hanging in the balance with how she performed on this final assignment. I’d already been out of high school for years at this time, but I was just winging it and found the assignment a breeze. It didn’t even occur to me to write it in such a way that would seem like it came out of her mouth. When she read it she was pronouncing words like “genes” as “gen… iss…,” etc.
Just curious then, why help her at all? Does enabling a family member who partied all year and asks for your help the night before on an important paper seem like it would be good for her in the long run? What would be the worst case scenario for her without help, being expelled from her high school or repeating her grade level?
It seems you reinforced a lesson that lying and plagarism can make up for a consistent work ethic? And that when she gets caught she should double down in denial no matter how obvious the deception?
The inability to pronounce genes is just terribly funny though.
Short answer (don’t seek a justification in this response, only an answer), because biology overwhelms logic at every turn. I have no logical argument against that because I agree with you. But she’s my cousin and I love her; and that overrides everything else. We’ve always had a very close relationship and I’ve viewed her as a younger sister I was bailing out. We’ve been partners in crime like this all of our lives and had each others backs, so to speak. Does it help long-term? Not at all. My strongest support for her has been to support her family and kids (now some of my youngest cousins). And she’s quite successful professionally now. I’ve helped her through school, building resumes, coaching her, etc. So she’s learned a ‘lot’ over the years.
I've been roped in to "help" with homework as a kid, and though for the family member it was not down to partying (they had been very sickly throughout childhood and missed a lot of school as a result), it didn't help them in the long run and I ended up resenting being emotionally manipulated into doing this by parents.
I have to agree with @Sloot that this was teaching the wrong lesson: just do what you like, blow off responsibility, then cry a bit and someone will help you out. What happened in the end? Your cousin continued lying even when everyone knew (but could not prove) she was lying, she went to higher authority to get the fake result, succeeded, and came away having 'won' by cheating and deceit. This isn't good for society as a whole or for the individuals concerned. She hasn't learned anything except that you're a soft touch who will always come through and fix her problems for her, and she can coast on charm, attractiveness, and doing what she wants while you will always clean up her messes and even look after her kids for her. How can she learn when it's you "helping her through school, building her resumes, coaching her, etc."? She did none of the work, she learned nothing, and worse, the next generation (her kids) are learning the same thing: don't worry about messing up, cousin Tretiak will sweep it under the carpet for us, the old fool!
Has her professional success benefited you? Has she done anything to help you? Or is it always turn up, turn on the waterworks, and my simp cousin will sort it out for me?
Enormously.
There was a year a couple of decades ago, back when my friends and I were still in school and struggling with things where she got couple of my friends laid several times by different women in a brief window of about two weeks, by some girls in her circle that she knew. She was always something of a socialite and knows what’s going on in the city; and she knew the conservative religious chicks as well as the party girls, but she always categorically refused to set me up with one of her distant friends for something serious because, “Trust me, they’re all whores.” She told me she wanted me to get a good and nice church girl that would make my life easy. But after taking care of my homeboys I’ll never forget my best friend pulled me aside one day and tells me “She’s got a friend for life!” To this date, she knows she’s got friends of mine she can call on for anything, 🫡 🫡 🫡 🫡; and she still talks to them all the time. She’s made sure we’re well taken care of several times.
Well, there's that much at least and she is repaying the debt of family.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link