This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If I'm in an MMA match, and I'm put in an armbar, and I don't tap, did the guy I'm fighting break my arm, or did I make him break my arm?
What if NATO is on the sidelines yelling at me that I can still win this thing?
It's like you're in an MMA match, and the guy you're fighting is going to kill you if you lose (but he's going to walk away regardless).
Is there any belief by any serious thinker that this is a war of genocide?
Ukraine gets to choose between being Russia's puppet state and being used as a buffer between it and NATO, or being NATOs puppet state and filled with Africans. Such is the fate of minor nations. There will almost certainly be more Ukrainians in three generations under Russian dominion than NATO. Unless you stretch the definition of Ukrainian to mean anyone on Ukranian soil, but then what was the point of keeping Russians out if you can just change the meaning of words and suddenly everyone is Ukranian?
We are supposed to treat seriously claims of "white genocide" because white people in the west can't breed. However, when Russia deports ukranian children and bans the ukranian language the G-word is totally unfitting.
Very few wars are fought with the explicit aim of putting a bullet in the head of every citizen. Nevertheless, wars short of that can be existential for the state.
Interesting. And Ukraine was being filled with Africans between 2013 and 2022, right? And e.g. Poland (also a nato puppet if there ever was one) is also filled with Africans?
South Asians, and at a somewhat slower pace than the wokest countries in NATO, but yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Indian population of Poland is around 0.09%. Perhaps some sophistry can turn this into "filled", but I'm not impressed.
When responding, please keep in mind that Russia is 10%-15% Muslim.
This is exactly the same argument that was used in the western parts of Europe a few decades ago, a mere glance at them now clearly shows that, if anything, it's sophistry to deny Poland is being deliberately filled with foreigners.
I don't understand the claim. The biggest foreign worker demographics in Poland are Ukranians and Belorussians, together accounting for about a million people out of 1.3 million foreign workers. I do concede these are foreigners, but somehow I doubt that this is what we are talking about.
The word "deliberately" is especially puzzling in this case since these visas were apparently issued illegally as revealed by an internal investigation. Seems easier to sweep this under the rug if it really is coming from a deliberate top down policy, although I do concede that in the strictest pedantic sense these visas were issued "deliberately" as opposed to accidentally.
Are you under the impression that there are no foreign workers in Russia, or that Russian work visas are somehow not issued "deliberately"?
The current amount of immigrants from other parts of the world is irrelevant to the claim about Poland being filled with Africans/South Asians, because that amount is changing. To confirm this, all you have to do is look at how demographic trends developed in other European countries. At one point they also had just a few percent of Africans / Asians / Muslims, and your exact argument was deployed in the exact same way you are doing here.
Not sure how that's relevant. The illegal immigrants that were let in under Biden were also illegal. They were still let in deliberately.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link