This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Slow news week. The current thing is still Graham Platner.
NYT: Several Women Who Dated Graham Platner Recall ‘Unsettling’ Behavior
That's right, the New York Times hunted down as many of Platner's ex-girlfriends as they could to dig up dirt on this guy. It would be an exaggeration to say that the entire article is irrelevant high school-tier personal gossip, but gee there sure is a lot of irrelevent personal gossip. The one anecdote with teeth comes from a woman active in Republican politics.
There are a lot of ways one could interpret those paragraphs.
Ladies, never ask your man what he would do to a home invader. Unless you're into that.
This article confirms my earlier suspicion that Platner is getting the kind of hostile media coverage usually reserved for Republicans. The elephant in the room is that this is because Platner likes Nazi imagery (it is beyond serious dispute at this point that he knew for years it was a totenkopf) and dislikes the state of Israel. I am 90% sure that both of the authors are Jewish. It feels icky to break out the calipers for this (though I am not basing my assessment solely on their names and faces. I was able to find old articles linking them to synagogues), but I really do think it is relevant.
I’ll just take the funny hot take. He’s 100% gay (or bisexual) if he said he would rape a male home intruder. I even have some dominant kinks. At no point have I ever had a thought of raping a guy because I am dominant.
I’ll even admit torture can have value. Perhaps for information. Potentially to discourage future bad behavior in your enemy if you have sufficient power. Like the guys who killed Nowak. I probably feel they should be executed. And I might even want to discourage that behavior in others in the future by not giving them a clean death. But there are lots of ways to torture that don’t involve having sex with them.
But as the wise man said: “If you did it for a good reason, you'd do it for a bad one. You couldn't say 'We're the good guys' and do bad-guy things.”
Sure but this goes into a more theological argument that there are absolute good things and absolute bad things. My more pagan impulses say you punish the rival tribe when they misbehave and harm your tribe.
So when a foreigner in your homeland stabs to death someone in your tribe you torture them for a month. Then you post their mutilated body on your city gates for a year as a sign of what happens to someone who kills a UK citizen.
And then a visitor or maybe merchant to your lands does not go stabbing one of your citizens.
Now try to consider what happens if that maxim is made a general rule. I highly doubt that it would make for a more peaceful or prosperous world.
I think a better world.
I feel there is a lot of naïveté to say it wouldn’t make a better world. If you have only lived in a white European world then it seems like it would be bad.
Was the Democratic Republic of Congo better or worse under Belgian Rule who sometimes were brutal? Was Chile better or worse before Pinochet? Was Mexico better or worse under Aztec rule or Spanish rule? Was S Africa better or worse under Apartheid? Were blacks better or worse under segregation? Was Syria better or worse when Assad lost power? Was Libya better or worse under Ghaddafi? Supposedly England executed like 1% of their population per year for a century did that make them better or worse? Was the Roman Empire better or worse than the Dark Ages? Is El Salvador’s better or worse under Bukele? Were Blacks in America better off during peak woke and anti-policing?
I feel like an eye Doctor. Is this image better or worse?
I don’t think it’s the least bit clear that some brutality is worse for society.
I meant if everyone applies your proposed course of action, including the lower-albedo populations. We are no longer living in the age of "We have the Maxim Gun, and they don't."
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link