site banner
PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   1367 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for August 7, 2026

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I skimmed this but have the following observations.

Am I understanding it right that two men, working in a hospital, were crying together in the bathroom because their boss had some tough words for them?

And after that, you aggressively went around to all your seniors for feedback and, requested formal performance feedback, looked over their shoulder with it, and demanded your boss review it all?

I suppose that’s one way to approach work/career goals. Not a very good one in my estimation. Yes, corporate/institutional work settings have this whole formal HR performance review framework. I suppose it can be helpful for progression, but the real reason we do this is to document low performers and ease separations. It’s rarely for the employees benefit. You will get much more mileage making your bosses’ life easier rather than harder.

But that’s all besides the point I’m trying to make. Is it normal for Scottish/British men to weep at work or get emotionally flustered when they’re having a bad day? Is it normal for them to passive aggressively confront their bosses about it? Is it normal for them to stir the pot with the other staff?

Maybe it is, but that wouldn’t be my guess. This all sounds extremely feminine. I’d love to know the demographics of this place you work. Are you trying to fit in? Or is this just how you operate?

I suppose I’m looking for a window into UK office culture. If it’s as pozzed as the UK police, maybe I shouldn’t be surprised at any of this. But this sure doesn’t sound like UK that was once a great country - rather, it sounds like place headed straight for the third world.

  1. Everyone crying in this story is a woman. Which is unsurprising, because the overwhelming majority of doctors under 35 in this ward are women, and because I have conspicuously used "she" as a pronoun to describe them. Only time I've ever cried in this ward, in the loo, is from sheer relief, when I heard I passed an important exam despite giving it at a time my brain was riddled with holes from acute stress, a depressive relapse, and regular migraines. I did very well, which was only somewhat surprising.
  2. My boss did not just have "mean words", he implied I was lazy and hadn't gotten important assessments done prior to a performance review due in a week or so. I hadn't gotten them done, but only because the whole ward was catching fire from the strain. I had asked my seniors to make the time to assess me half a dozen times, and they simply couldn't do it. He was unwilling to accept this, but he had been on his own vacation, and hadn't even had the opportunity to talk to said colleagues of his to confirm this. He said exactly as much, which was honest, but he spends 90% of his time away from the ward and does not have a clue as to what's going on at the ground level.
  3. A requirement of being a doctor in the NHS, at pretty much every level, is canvassing formal written feedback from a diverse sample of coworkers on a regular basis. Junior, senior, anything in between. The nurses, non-medical staff, anyone who has interacted with me is also fair game. And no, why the fuck would I stand over their shoulder? I handed them the forms, went away, and collected them later en-masse. The only pressure involved was simply confirming, later, that they'd finished it. They then, voluntarily, told me what they'd put in writing. I do not have any meaningful leverage over people who are quite literally on their last day at work here. I have minimal leverage on the seniors who did theirs too. The only reason I got glowing feedback is because my colleagues are very fond of me. They've seen me work hard, including at periods where I've been popping painkillers like candy so I don't get laid out with severe pain. They've seen me make time and regularly stay back late just to reassure patients and their family. They've also seen me being more supportive than you can imagine, when the new baby doctors come in and start shaking in their scrubs.
  4. My boss had asked me to get these assessments done, as well as several others. He was not wrong in doing this, because I am required to do them for career progression. They are read by higher-ups in the training program as well as himself. He had been annoyed that I hadn't gotten them done earlier, and had not believed it when I said this hadn't been for a lack of trying.
  5. I get along well with my boss, most of the time. I have no interest in making his life harder for the sake of it, but he gets paid extra to be my named supervisor and this comes with additional workload. I've been inundating him with this stuff because he's asked for it, and also because it completely undermines any concerns he's raised about me. He's a good guy, but he can be clueless, and this time he was. He has also not done several important things I've repeatedly asked him to do, and which he is obliged to do. People are complicated.

But that’s all besides the point I’m trying to make. Is it normal for Scottish/British men to weep at work or get emotionally flustered when they’re having a bad day? Is it normal for them to passive aggressively confront their bosses about it? Is it normal for them to stir the pot with the other staff?

None of the above buddy, and in part because none of that happened. If you have the time to write all of that, you have the time to do more than skim. You just have no idea what the workload can be like, this isn't a profession you opt for in the hopes of excellent work-life balance, and this particular department is on the hellish end of the spectrum.

I work for a consulting company you would have heard of. Im no stranger to demanding hours. And I’ve had people management responsibilities for over 10 years.

Based on that experience, I suspect we’re only hearing one side of the story. I’ve had easy people on my team and I’ve also had difficult ones. The difficult ones are always genuinely shocked when they get a bad review. It’s amazing, almost universally they think they are doing a supremely good job and they think they work extremely hard. And sometimes they are right - in a very narrow slice of their responsibilities. But they are often well below expectations in most other areas.

All of this is to say that this pattern matches with a problematic employee. Maybe you’re great with patients. But if your institution is anything like mine, being good at the technical piece of work is only one part of the job. Agitating with the staff, using excuses, and making demands like that will often get a person tagged with being more trouble than they are worth. And all the positive performance review documents in the system will only delay the inevitable.

I’m just trying to give you some perspective and help you course correct. Sometimes you need to hear the truth and I’m guessing the other women in your group are not giving it to you.

Well, you tried. It's hard to rescue a young man from his own arrogance, when he's first feeling the flowering of his agency and ability.

He'll either get humbled in a few more years and give what you said a second thought, or turn into one of those monsters in management who's "never wrong" and lashes out at people, destroying the institution from within.

Shit, we got on the topic of UK institutions in terminal decay once again!

He'll either get humbled in a few more years and give what you said a second thought, or turn into one of those monsters in management who's "never wrong" and lashes out at people, destroying the institution from within.

I admire the confidence with which you present these as the only possible outcomes. I hope I do end up with that much epistemic humility.

No epistemic humility required. Those are literally the only two outcomes physically possible. You think you can never be humbled? You ever meet a person who refuses to ever have been humbled their entire life?

You're a clinician, what does a person who always thinks they are the greatest, and is always correct about everything, and reacts aggressively when their ego is challenged sound like?

You're a clinician, what does a person who always thinks they are the greatest, and is always correct about everything, and reacts aggressively when their ego is challenged sound like?

I know perfectly well what that person is. The problem is that I resent your implication that that's a fair description of me. You don't have to go digging very far to find examples of me admitting that I'm wrong about something, really. Here, I'll make it super easy for myself and kill two birds with one stone:

@Brainwavez @sarker

The recent shakeup at Google, with the departure of Jeff Dean, puts them out of the running as a frontier lab. I'm not saying they don't have a hope at all, I'm saying that regaining the lead is going to be even more of an uphill struggle. In other words, I was wrong.

Now, back to you, Coil:

Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no answers only, please. I'm too old for these games.

I would if she stopped deserving it.

/sarcasm

If adherence to the requisite format was beyond your abilities, I'm sure there would have been room for an apology. I have just learned not to expect very much.

More comments

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats