site banner
PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   22622 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 7, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Is anyone outside the court system seriously defending the bio parents here? Like (the conviction of) Lindsay Clancy 2.0, the virginia mom found guilty of abuse for letting her 5-year-old walk 1/2 mile unsupervised in a gated community.

Another win for jury trials, it would be nearly impossible to select even a majority of ordinary people who’d convict either.

+1 for the parents, cautiously. I'm receptive to arguments about bodily autonomy/finding an economic system where poor people are incentivised to be walking incubators to be distasteful, but at the same time so far there is no legal clarity against it and I don't think there should be takesies-backsies when society couldn't get itself to ban something but then didn't like the outcome.

Also, taking for granted that weakening surrogacy contracts like this is halfway to banning it, it's not like surrogacy doesn't have its good sides, from a eugenic perspective as much as for the personal good of the would-be genetic parents.

Me. It's not her child and she had signed a contract.

I'm glad you responded. But

It's not her child and she had signed a contract

The bio parents don't want the child. Even ignoring that a child isn't property and did not sign (at this point they're born, and even before then, I see abortion as a lesser evil); if somebody doesn't want something for themselves, why should they be allowed to deny others?

It looks to me like the parents didnt want the huge medical bill and what they believed would be the death of the infant. Now that the surrogate got the state of Texas to pay for it, they obviously do want the child that they initially engaged the surrogate for. But I tend to agree that the surrogate, being the one to get Texas to pay for saving the child, now has the stronger claim.

The fetus is absolutely their property. Should IVF clinics be allowed to use your frozen eggs without your consent if you don't need them?

If they can find decent adoptive parents, I don't see why not.

By that logic, why not go full Murray Rothbard, and declare children to be the parents' property?

Because some of us think that fetuses are qualitatively different from children. Children meet my definition of sentient human beings, but fetuses don't.

This is obviously not science though I guess without clear science picking 9 months post conception as sentient sort of works. But there is no science that makes outside of mother as suddenly sentient being. Somewhat similar to how we have different ages for adulthood but they’re basically made up.

The religious people have the better science argument of just declaring we don’t know when it’s sentient so let’s do none of this.

You don't meet the definition either when you're unconcious.

Since you apparently presume to know my definition, can you state it in your own words?

I believe that the answer given to that problem in past discussions on this website⁎ is: a previously-conscious child has a future expectation of consciousness (barring an unrecoverable coma), while a never-previously-conscious fetus has no such future expectation.

⁎Which I failed to find in a few minutes of searching, so I unfortunately am forced to write this comment instead of just giving a terse "previous discussion" link.

You mean full Rome?

Article

tl;dr: A child is a person in possession of the right of self-ownership but not yet competent to exercise that right, so it is placed under the pseudo-ownership/trusteeship of its parents. (The parents are not allowed to harm the child through action, but are allowed to let it come to harm through inaction, and are allowed to sell the trusteeship to others.) The child can assert its right of self-ownership and end the trusteeship once it is competent to do so (e. g., by leaving the parents' household).

Sure, also.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats