site banner
PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   2438 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 13, 2026

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

2
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Do the religious people on here actually believe in Christianity? Like do you actually believe that Christ rose from the dead, Garden of Eden, Jesus is the son of God, the Trinity, virgin birth, etc? Or is more Deism and you like the community from going to church? I have a hard time believing most adult converts i.e. JD Vance actually believe these things, but I'm curious if I'm wrong here.

Yes….?

If your model of the US is one where most educated practicing and professing Catholics don’t really believe it, you’re very wrong. Now of course, you can give some side eye to politicians, but if your assumption is that we all are mostly just larping, no.

That's probably a true model, however. Most Catholics regardless of education are nonpracticing and only partial believers.

Right about non practicing Catholics of course. But mentioning Vance OP seemed to be asking whether practitioners actively believed it.

Best guess estimates is that there’s about 25% of practicing Catholics who don’t intend to believe much in the way of catholic doctrine, and this definitely applies to many democrat politicians, which we know because they’ve said so.

It’s not implausible to me that VP Vance could be in the same category with opposite political valence. It’s not the explanation I’d go with.

Eh, I tend to give Vance the benefit of the doubt because he converted from evangelical Protestantism. If he had merely been chasing clout for the "smart people" version of Christianity, he'd have gone to one of the mainline denominations - Episcopalians for most snobbery value but they probably would all have turned green and had a fit of the vapours at the very notion, so one of the Lutheran or Methodist liberal churches. Bill Clinton is Baptist, but American Baptist, the northern and more liberal sibling of the Southern Baptists. There are progressive Baptists, and one James Talarico is doing his best for the Democrats in Texas by being a (liberal) Presbyterian (heavy on the liberal, less so on the Christian as anything stronger than "Jesus wants us all to be nice" doctrines).

That is not how the American elite works.

It's probably true that the Episcopalians wouldn't have taken him, but the Lutherans are not known as a convert church. A convert to Lutheranism would probably look suspicious in American political context, even. Becoming Catholic is a sensible career decision for an aspiring member of the conservative elite- although staying Lutheran or Jewish or Mormon might be acceptable, converting over would not be. These are ethnic religions in America. His real alternative was eastern Orthodoxy, which is far smaller and lower profile(and would probably be regarded as eccentric kinda Catholics by most Americans anyways- including by professional sociographers).

an aspiring member of the conservative elite

Who would still not be Catholics (the working class religion of the Irish, Italians, Poles, etc.) but more likely Episcopalians, Catholicism-Lite but with Anglican class 😁 Look at St John the Divine in New York, with its list of famous funerals, or the National Cathedral in Washington - that's an Episcopal Church building, not a Catholic one. The Episcopalians have been influential amongst American elites out of all proportion to their numbers.

Lutheran churches may still have strong roots in national churches, but a move upwards from being a redneck Fundie to a progressive Lutheran? That would help in political ascension, reassurance that you're not going to wipe your boots on the tablecloth or spit on the floor.

Though possibly I'm looking at this through a British Isles lens, where Margaret Thatcher moved from Methodism to Anglicanism as she rose in the Tory party.

Yes, you’re confusing America and England. Anglicanism is a liberal elite religion here- establishment but very much not appropriate for the right wing of the Republican Party. Catholicism covers the whole class spectrum in America and the (relatively small) liberal wing is still more moderate than the episcopal church.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats