This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Ukraine was always going to end this way, and if I were in charge I would have told Zelenskyy to get stuffed in 2022 when this all started. Its just not in our strategic interests to prop up the independence of a small unimportant bit of farmland at the cost of using up our strategic reserves, making us more dependent on Muslim energy, and placing us in a terrible position of showing weakness to the globe and not being able to defend actually important Taiwan and its high end chips from China.
Zelenskyy was brilliant at quipping about not needing a ride, but that’s a shitty reason to arm them and ultimately proved Europe to be mostly too weak to worry about.
The best case scenario (other than a clear Ukrainian victory) would have been a Russian victory in 2023. By then, they would have taken enough damage to dissuade them from further adventures, but hundreds of thousands of men wouldn't have been slaughtered.
The longer this war goes on, the more screwed Ukraine is demographically.
The people who I hate the most are those who view this war as a way to test new drone technology with real live meat puppets, or who put the strategic goal of "weakening Russia" above the lives of real people.
Yes, it's all Russia's fault, but at this point the Ukrainian state is an active impediment to the happiness of the Ukrainian people. Conscription in this forever war is little better than slavery. And the women who fled to Germany are going to find husbands there and never come back. Who is being saved?
Funny, the people I hate the most are those who started the war.
Although Americans whining about Ukraine not giving up faster as if they cared about the Ukranians, come a close second.
A person who would sacrifice every Ukrainian for the sake of Ukraine is no friend.
Ukrainians: I would like to fight.
Allies: We can support you in that effort
Porkpiehat: EXCUSE ME, isn't there someone you forgot to ask?
My brother, the Ukrainians have, with a massive majority, chosen to fight. The only opposition to Zelensky comes from a position of wanting more efforts to fight, based around those who have other ideas on how to fight. They really, honestly, truly, want to do it, I promise you from personal experience. Zelensky isn't forcing them to against their will, he's riding a tiger and likely to be voted out post war for his failings here. Some have left the country, some will return, but those who remain strongly think the best future for Ukraine is by breaking Russia, and truly think they can.
Kind of based. I'm confused by those who can't see that.
You're confused because you're not living in reality.
The generally accepted number is that 75% of Ukraine's soldiers are conscripts, although we'll never know the exact number because it's a state secret.
Where do you get that number from? I have never heard it before.
Ukrainian National News
https://unn.ua/en/news/the-ratio-of-volunteers-to-mobilized-servicemen-in-the-army-is-13-defense-ministry
Thanks! While 2 years old, it is definitely food for thought.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link