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Funny, the people I hate the most are those who started the war.
Although Americans whining about Ukraine not giving up faster as if they cared about the Ukranians, come a close second.
A person who would sacrifice every Ukrainian for the sake of Ukraine is no friend.
Ukrainians: I would like to fight.
Allies: We can support you in that effort
Porkpiehat: EXCUSE ME, isn't there someone you forgot to ask?
My brother, the Ukrainians have, with a massive majority, chosen to fight. The only opposition to Zelensky comes from a position of wanting more efforts to fight, based around those who have other ideas on how to fight. They really, honestly, truly, want to do it, I promise you from personal experience. Zelensky isn't forcing them to against their will, he's riding a tiger and likely to be voted out post war for his failings here. Some have left the country, some will return, but those who remain strongly think the best future for Ukraine is by breaking Russia, and truly think they can.
Kind of based. I'm confused by those who can't see that.
You're confused because you're not living in reality.
The generally accepted number is that 75% of Ukraine's soldiers are conscripts, although we'll never know the exact number because it's a state secret.
Pork, I know Ukrainians, I have relatives fighting, and the poem "The beginnings" applies to all of them. I'm British but the force of the Ukrainian's fury would impress Kipling, and I would not want to be a Russian over the next few decades after their sowing of the wind.
As per reality, I can strongly predict reality based upon all of what I posted, for example the pro/anti war/Russia direction of Zelensky's future challenger. Would you make a prediction there?
The UK had a similar level of conscription in WW2, what does that prove? Did you think that after Coventry and London that we wanted peace? Gently, where is any of what you are saying coming from other than vibes?
Trust me bro!
Polling suggests otherwise
The most recent data does show Ukrainians have largely given up on outright military victory and want a negotiated end, but they overwhelmingly reject terms that amount to capitulation. The dominant position is a third option: freeze the war on roughly the current line, without legally giving up territory or disarming, still fighting. All of those require fighting Russia to a standstill, and are based on the assumption that is the correct thing for Ukraine. I am perfectly aware of the polls, they match my descriptions above, and Zelensky's challengers are attacking him from that position, there is no popular capitulation position. What's your "trust me bro" information I'm missing?
You claimed to have special insight. I was being perhaps too snarky.
In any event, freezing the lines today means de facto you are giving up territory as opposed to de jure. That is, it would be capitulation.
Fair, but I feel you've missed the important detail that lots of the polling holds implicit but might not be obvious - Ukrainians who want a negotiated end to the war/freezing along current lines are supporting ongoing fighting until that is achieved by definition, the option in the poll for taking Russia's current offer is defined as "capitulation".
It's maybe a subtle point, but hugely important, in a sense you're right, it's capitulation to outsiders as they would end up with less territory, but it's also fighting until Russia is forced to accept the Ukrainian red lines, security agreements or whatever ends up in there. It's a very important distinction to the population and why many are fighting so hard - to give the best chance that this is an end to the war, not a temporary pause.
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