site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Should they just have already assumed the government was made up mostly of completely useless rent seeking tyrants? Keep in mind a lot of them are pretty young and may not have figured that out yet.

I'd argue being young is even more reason for them to know. My wife's boomer parents are still living on in the shadow of their upbringing, where they assume the institutions (at least the ones run by Democrats) are unquestionably good, honorable, trustworthy and competent. The continuous rolling systemic weaknesses and disasters of the last 20 years have done absolutely zero to disabuse them of that notion. Where as, I've seen numerous polls that show young people who've grown up knowing nothing but the the absolute clusterfuck of the last 20 years have record low levels of trust in institutions.

All that said, I found this data point which makes me question a lot of that, and maybe come around to your side.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1078192/trust-government-generation-us/

Some of the data points are funny. Like in 2009 after Obama won the presidency, Millennials had a 43% trust in government. That doesn't last. Biden being elected in 2020 results in a fairly large bump in trust for every generation except Millennials. Weirdly enough the data skips straight from Oct 2015 to April 2017, so we don't get a snapshot of the post Trump trust score.

So I donno, looking over the data, it may be hard to tease apart age cohort from political party in power, with younger cohorts generally trusting D's more, and older cohorts seeming to trust R's more. With the seemingly notable exception of Biden. In fact, when I really look at Millennials on the last 20 years of the graph, they do seem abnormally trusting. Once again, with the giant glaring exception of Biden winning office. What's up with that?

Things started notably unraveling under fairly recently and Biden took the blame.

I’m late GenX, and I took “government” class in high school. I’ve heard Boomers talk about “civics” class, but my cohort and younger talk about “social studies” classes. Not a comprehensive answer, just an anecdote which might be a piece of the puzzle.

Millennial here (or at least definitely somewhere between GenX and Zoomer), we indeed had Social Studies (mostly history, maybe also literature) when I was in public school. When I transferred to a charter school, I had more specific history classes. Didn't exactly have civics.

Back in my day we had “social studies” in elementary/middle and “government” in high school. The former was state and national history. Looks like the current requirements have a “social studies” category including history, government, geography and sometimes economics.

I think it’s a catchall term, not a shibboleth.