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Your thesis is quite coherent if one believes, as you do, that the Holocaust is a hoax and Jews are waging a shadow-war against Western civilization.
If one doesn't believe that, well, you still make a convincing argument that the Holocaust is overemphasized in American education and that Jews still suffer from a neurotic fear of persecution that is dramatically disproportionate to the actual level of threat offered to them. (I actually do believe this.) But if one supposes, just for the sake of argument, that there really was a concerted effort to exterminate them within living memory, one can surely see a motive for feeling this way that is not mere zeal to convert the heathens, no?
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
When you go from 'racism is a property of uniquely evil people called nazis' + 'evil nazis want to kill Jews because they are the good guys' to
'racism is your uniquely original sin and there is nothing you can do to wash it away' + 'somehow this does not apply to similar-looking people called Jews because it just doesn't'.
At some point the people targeted by #2 are going to wonder about #1 and how and why the uniquely evil nazis that they are made to identify with felt about the suspiciously similar but immune people.
Something's gotta give.
The only way to stop antisemitism is identical to the only way to stop racism, for Jews to assimilate. Unlike various races that have been more than happy to blend in together, the current Jews are descended from people that ferociously refused to.
While Jews enjoy a pretty comfortable situation at the top of American society, from an economic, social, prestige pov, they are not satisfied until the goyim grovel and endlessly apologize, even if they are billionaires, even if they are minorities, even if they are beloved, high status entertainment figures.
That's not sustainable.
Jews have assimilated pretty well in the US. Unless you mean they should literally stop being Jews?
This is just vilifying your outgroup without evidence. (Not modhatted, because I'm in the conversation, but you should know better.)
If by 'being Jews' you refer to '(1)only allowing blood-related people into your religion, claiming that only blood-relation can make you Jewish and (2) the whole other host of beliefs associated with the Holocaust/progressive worldview related to white people and institutions they like being intrinsically racist'.
(2) being most obviously exemplified by the memetic double claim 'fellow white people now is time to end racism/whiteness etc' + 'I'm not white I'm Jewish' when time comes to explain why affirmative action somehow does not apply to Jewish-heavy institutions.
Then yes.
But guess what, that is implicitly and sometimes explicitly what is demanded of white people. 'stop supporting whiteness'.
'stop surrounding yourself with other white people' / 'stop excluding non-whites' / 'stop taking non-whites' space [in formerly white-built institutions]
Why wouldn't it be more inclusive to have every synagogue open to worship Mohammed or even Hitler?
Well then not all Jews (NAJ).
Just the handful of ones that hold such power that they can get a beloved entertainment billionaire African-American to lose a money-printing contract with a sports clothing company.
[ADL & co / Kanye West / Adidas]
But uh oh isn't that an antisemitic trope to claim that a handful of Jews have disproportionate power?!
This is not a requirement to be Jewish. They do not go looking for converts, but it is possible to convert into Judaism.
This isn't a component of Judaism, and while it may be a fair description of many (not all) socially liberal Jews, it's not a defining characteristic of "Jewishness."
Your main objection seems to be specifically about contemporary leftist SJ-aligned Jews, yet you made reference to historical "ferocious" refusal to assimilate.
Even if we go with "Jews control Hollywood," yeah, that's still a long shot from saying "Jews cause anti-Semitism because they all cancelled Kanye and are afraid of being Holocausted and won't assimilate."
Not a very common thing to see. At least we can admit that they are pretty insular people.
In the one country where there is a large amount of them, Israel, they can't really be said to be very nice to the non-Jews.
Well, yes. Refusal to assimilate. All the Jews that decided to assimilate converted to Christianity, 2000 years ago.
All the Jews that exist now descend from people that had a chance to convert at some point, and decided not to.
And they've taught their descendants not to.
Similarly to the Amish. The Amish exist because they descend from a line of people that decided not to adopt technology and to teach their children not to. There are very few converts.
At any point in time an Amish person can decide to stop living the Amish life. Sure, they could still be considered Amish, but their children or grand-children would not.
The difference between the Amish and the Jews is that the Amish don't control banking and media corporations, don't control people's livelihood, what they buy, are allowed to buy or what they are allowed to think, who they are allowed to vote for.
Imagine if the owner of TheMotte was talking trash about the Amish and the Amish somehow coordinated with payment processing systems, internet infrastructure companies, other corporations to force the owner to close the website.
And when they would try go tell somebody about these events, their media invites would get cancelled or the media that did decide to host them would get banned from internet infrastructure companies, payment processing companies, etc.
This is what happens very often if not always when somebody talks trash about the Jews.
This would be fair if that was the first time this ever happened.
Rick Sanchez had the same issues in the 2010s.
Norm was joking about it in the 90s
My point of view is that a conspiracy does not need to exist for the results that we see.
I think that Jews in general, going through the historical selection that they went through, led them to inherit characteristics of people that not only cannot assimilate to a wider body of humanity, but also constantly feel under attack from the majority of humanity, and tend to overreact to that perceived attack, therefore triggering resentment.
Kind of like the common psychological phenomenon of somebody feeling insecure, thinking that everybody is constantly judging or scrutinizing them, therefore projecting an aura of awkwardness wherever they go, and causing people to perceive them as they self-evaluate.
These people find each over and bond over their uniqueness and their vulnerability against the rest of the mean world, and when inevitably their behavior causes the rest of the tribe to suffer, they are the first out the door, and the most likely to survive!
Who is most likely to survive a banking riot, the honest guy that doesn't really have any opinion about banking, or the insider Sam Bankman-Fried, who knows that there's a lot of bad things happening in banking, and if they're not coming for him, the pitchforks outside the windows are not good news anyway?
The easiest for rich, powerful Jews to get others to like them, is to personify noblesse oblige.
Be generous with your money, share your wealth, be a role model for others.
What do so many of them do?
George Soros goes and hires people to make US cities more dangerous (soft on crime DAs).
Others found organizations to help people illegally immigrate to the US (break the laws that protect the American people).
Sam Bankman Fried goes and scams a bunch of do-gooders who wanted to improve charity.
And of course the endless stream of progressive media 'stop whiteness now', 'you are racist for having standards of how your country should be that rich Jews disagree with' etc.
This is historical too. So many Jews could not stand that Americans had a right to self-association so they funded the Civil Rights movement.
The Amish like their life a certain way, they like to live among themselves and not mingle with others, like the Jews, but they're not forcing or even coercing anyone else to live their beliefs, drop their borders, accommodate foreigners, accommodate sexual minorities, drug addicts, etc.
But most of the US Blue Tribe Jews I know ARE assimilated, as indeed are the Christians and Muslims. Other than which cultural holidays they celebrate, their educated Blue Tribe values are much more similar than not. They don't go to Jewish or Muslim or Christian schools. (Well ironically enough if there is a pattern it appears to be to send their kids to Catholic schools in all cases actually).
Now their are more conservative Jewish communities that are not assimilated but they also tend to be very poor and not doing much in the way of billionaire fundraising as far as I can see.
The key difference between Blue Jews and Blue whites is that if somebody goes and says 'I have an issue with Jews' then the Blue Jews can all get together and issue a statement to complain and bad stuff can happen to that somebody.
If somebody goes and says 'I have an issue with white people' then they can potentially profit from it and the Blue whites might have to apologize for whatever complaint was filed against them.
Oh and they also get their Blue white comrades to fund the military defense of their ethnostate in the Middle-East that they can retreat to if their latest race war experiment goes wrong stateside.
Integrating to the Blue team for white people means letting go of your tribal connections, denying the importance of your ancestry, cultural accomplishments, demanding that whatever remains of it be thrown down.
An authentic Blue Jew would demand Holocaust museums exclusively host Rwandan or Uyghur genocide exhibits, write hit-pieces endlessly tearing down classic Holocaust literature like Ann Frank's diary, Maus, etc, for racism, homophobia, sexism...
We need a Netflix Ann Frank movie starring a disabled trans African tribeswoman including jokes targeted at traditional Jewish culture.
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"The Jews" don't control banking and media corporations - specific Jews do - and they're not uniformly Jewish. As I keep banging on about, Jews come in all sorts of different groups, and increasingly they're not even all that Jewish at all.
Specific Jews do the unbanking.
Specific Jews do the media influencing.
Specific Jews do the ADL, AIPAC, soft-on-crime DA, gun control, illegal immigrant charity... funding.
Specific Jews write the opinion pieces about how all white people are racist.
Specific Jews theorize the critical race, gender, border theories and teach them in colleges.
When you add them all up that ends up making a lot of specific individuals, but that still doesn't add up to the full Jewish population.
What are the other ones doing?
Are they coming out and saying 'us representatives of the Jewish bowling club of Broward County Florida, would like to address the egregious accusations against Kanye West / Nick Fuentes / etc, and show our support...'?
I haven't seen it.
If somebody happens to be an individual Jew who absolutely hates to see right-wing people get banned from media, people lose their job over criticism of powerful people, people get smeared every day for their skin color and other such things.
Then good for them.
But what I would call 'Team Jew' is absolutely opposed to them.
If that one individual is unable to shut down 'Team Jew', to tell their family members, cousins, in-laws, synagogue fellows, other members of the Jewish bowling club etc, to stop being part of Team Jew...
...well then they might become a casualty of the inevitable wave of 'antisemitism' (resentment against 'Team Jew').
That's not a threat, it just seems like a law of nature to me.
No nation in this whole world will endlessly tolerate a small group of people that is constantly undermining the majority
(which is what I perceive 'Team Jew' to be doing, which you may disagree with).
So do a lot of gentiles - doubly so regarding the idea that "all white people are racist" - that call's coming from inside the Gentile house (Robin DiAngelo, Ibram Kendi - not Jewish). That Jews are overrepresented compared to their population in left political movements or in white-collar knowledge-work does not make the whole edifice somehow "Jewish," anymore than tech is "Indian" because several CEOs have subcontinental heritage.
Increasingly, there is no "Jewish bowling club" (well, maybe in Broward, but who the eff would care what the Jewish Bowling Club in Broward thinks? Why should they think they speak for all Jews?)
Outside of orthodox communities, "Jewish" identity is increasingly attenuated and deracinated. Three quarters of Jews intermarry with the general population. The proportion of people with ethnic jewish heritage who are involved in religious or jewish ethnic community/social groups keeps falling every year, and is now an absolute minority. If you want to know what a person thinks, ask them.
The fact that you would call it "Team Jew" doesn't make it so.
History repeatedly shows the opposite. The small, organized, intolerant minority frequently stomps the large, unorganized, apathetic majority. The Bolsheviks were a tiny minority in 1918 Russia. The Jacobins were a tiny minority of the Estates General.
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Everything you state is done by leftists. You are articulating objections to leftism.
A majority of Jews in the West are pretty leftist.
You're engaged in the worst kind of Chinese robber argument. "I hate these trends, I notice a lot of Jews are in favor of them, therefore RAAR JOOS!"
If that were actually happening, they'd be noticed and stopped. Leftism isn't some insidious thing Da Joos are sneaking into the culture. Leftism would not dry up and blow away if not for Da Joos. Leftism is one side in an ongoing culture war, and it's winning a lot for reasons we've discussed here at great length. Da Joos did not make it happen.
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Then it would behoove those jews who are apparently not being represented by the 'elite' jews to stop supporting them through ethno centric advocacy groups that go as far as to say that any talk of 'international' or 'cosmopolitan' elites is inherently anti-semitic.
You can't have AIPAC, the ADL, and the thousands of jewish advocacy groups in the US and act like the concept of a 'jew' doesn't hold any value and that it can just be brushed away by mention of the fact that poor jews exist.
Unlike the anti-white racial theories of unconscious bias and systemic racism, anti-semitism doesn't need to go that far to make its point. It just needs to point to any one of the widely supported explicitly racially exclusive jewish advocacy groups.
It may shock you to know this, but most Jews aren't affiliated with, donors to, or otherwise associated with AIPAC or the ADL. Most Jews don't even think about those groups much (if at all). I'm not talking about "poor" Jews - but a large percentage of ethnic "Jews" who are only loosely (if at all) affiliated, either religiously or socially, with "Jewish" organizations. They're about as Jewish as a random American with the surname "Mulvaney" and who wears green on St. Patrick's day is Irish. There are a lot of "Jewish" advocacy organizations and charities in the same way that there are thousands of Catholic organizations.
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Every group in history has learned the lesson that you bury your differences with your in-group(s) when the out-group(s) attack. This would hold even for Jews. Why wouldn't they defend people that don't represent them if they happen to be in the same nominal group? This can happen even as they claim there's no meaningful concept as a Jew, yes?
Again, Scott had the post (which I can't remember the name of) about how there is a value in defending someone "related" to you from even the slightest attack even as you may have substantial disagreements with them.
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Reading this whole thread is surreal and it's cognitively difficult for me to engage with the entire girth of it, but at the very start is seems empirically wrong to me to suggest that Jews don't assimilate enough. Statistically speaking there's a jew in new york whose grandpa moved to brooklyn and learned english, and his dad moved to italy and learned italian, and his dad moved to austria and learned austrian, and his dad had to learn greek, and each of them invested in a local business along the way. As a thought experiment amongst people you personally know count the % of chinese immigrants who speak chinese at home vs the number of jews who speak hebrew lol.
As a thought experiment, name a couple Chinese-American actors, or any other immigrant-descendants who use their influence to subvert European-American values.
One of the only apparently decent people in Hollywood is Keanu Reeves, Americans love his gun movies.
On the other hand, we have a Sarah Silverman who makes Santa Inc.
Normal people don't do that. Why do you act as if that's evidence of integrating successfully?
Speaking the same language as somebody =/= integrating.
This is an example of integration
A normal person you talk shit to they talk shit back, they don't seize your bank accounts.
Only the high priests of the Holocaust religion make people bow and apologize with real tears.
I can't, but that could be because they've not been so successful at integrating into American society thus far? Give them time.
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Celebrities are a terrible example because they are not normal people in any sense of the word, the only shared trait they have is that they're well known. This seems to me like a motte and bailey.
Normal jews absolutely are as I described, in fact they're so good at assimilating that society at large can't even decide if they are white or not!
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It's important that everyone observe this interaction.
This is the best way that this person knows to express himself - this is the vocabularly available to him, and he is presenting his ideas in what feels to him like a logical and coherent fashion. This is some GPT-2 shit.
The profoundly racist, like Job, are evil. There's nothing one can do to you that can be considered immoral. You are vermin. You are a waste.
More importantly, the profoundly racist, like Job, are inhumanly retarded. You have swallowed the big lie of Mr. Rogers et. al, that because you have a mouth to form words and fingers to type, you are special, and your opinion should have merit and weight. You are nothing. In a right thinking society, you would be eating rats to avoid starvation in a gulag.
Cope and seethe, I'll be busy fucking white girls (raw!) with my Jew cock.
I'm disappointed by the lack of creativity in a post you obviously knew would catch you another ban. Also disappointed that you so easily let Job bait you into such a predictable flameout with such a predictable consequence.
Two weeks this time, and next time will probably be permanent.
I don't disagree with your decision, but I do wonder why (if you've recognized that Job's post was bait) you haven't handed them a warning and/or ban as well.
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No, I don't think so. Not in the US, at least. No more so than many other ethnic groups, and there are many that are far more insular than Jews (Native Americans, for example, or Hmong, or Sikhs, or Muslims). Hell, even Mormons could be called insular for all their proselytizing.
So, what is your objection to them not "assimilating" - which I take you to mean, converting to Christianity or otherwise abandoning Judaism - now?
It also happens when people talk trash about blacks or women or trans or any other favored minority group. We talk a lot here about how it's pretty much only "privileged" groups (i.e., straight white men) who it's okay for celebrities and politicians to talk trash about.
You may see a threat in the number of Jews in Hollywood and banking, but like @SecureSignals, when asked point-blank what you think "we" should do about it, or alternatively, what you think Jews should do to stop being so offensively Jewish, you are conspicuously silent. Do you want mass conversions? Expulsions and forced deportations to Israel? Industry quotas? I'd really like to see y'all quit waffling and spell out your agenda.
I thought I laid it out pretty clearly:
My problem is when a tiny minority that hates me has such control over my life.
Name 5 examples of a rich African-American suffering from talking trash about anyone else but the Jews.
There's clearly a hierarchy of who it is okay to criticize.
I'm not against powerful Jews. My issue is that they are against me.
I want to have a country where if there are elections they are not controlled by 8 media conglomerates that are either outright owned by Jews or overtly Jew-friendly.
I want to have an internet where I can write or read opinions about powerful Jews or anyone else without having to go through convoluted hoops. See what happened to the Dailystormer, and others.
I want to limit the amount of crime that powerful people commit, and if they do commit them, be able to point it out without harmful consequences.
I want scientists to be able to study trends that are related to crimes powerful people commit, for example Epstein, Weinstein, Wexner for sexual crimes, or Sam Bankman Fried and Charlie Javice for fraud.
If we see some actionable information there, then we can figure out what to do.
I would also like media to stop printing propaganda encouraging my children to do drugs, mutilate themselves, hate their ancestors, hate their religion, etc,
but if not, at least having an alternative would be nice.
Oh and another ask would be to stop having my taxes pay for wars on behalf of powerful Jews and their friends. Which was the biggest commitment Trump made to the American people, and for what he ultimately had to be removed imo.
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I don't question that the motive is sincere, similar to DasindustriesLtd's point. And although I do not believe the main big ticket items of the orthodox narrative are true, I do acknowledge it was a traumatic experience in which the Jews truly were at the complete mercy of non-Jews. They suffered for it and they do not want to be in that position again. I would go so far as to say even if some of them know the narrative is substantially false, they would still have that sincere motive to avoid what actually happened from ever happening again. As an example, Simon Wiesenthal is claimed to have been the progenitor of the deprecated claim that five million non-Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, but apparently Wiesenthal privately admitted that this was a lie to make non-Jews care about Jewish suffering. I don't doubt his motive, but I do acknowledge his willingness to lie in order to achieve his goals.
The entire problem is that the motivation for all this theater and religion is not contingent on historical truth. So your point only opens up the recognition of a genuine conflict of interest: Jews have a motive to propagate a message that promotes their own defense, even if parts of the narrative are substantially unture. An important part of the mechanism for ensuring their ethnic defense is weakening the ethnic defenses of non-Jews. You might consider that controversial, but this was basically the overt program of the critical theorists and psychoanalysts in their effort to cure Gentile psychopathology of the authoritarian personality. So we have a genuine conflict of interest in which historical truth is a lower priority than pursuit of cultural self-interest.
The problem with that sincere motivation, and the real reason anti-Semitism is so persistent- I would even say anti-fragile, is that the harder they fight against it the more they validate it and give it a greater force of truth and credibility. Let's say Dara Horn succeeds in mandating every child experiences some AI-powered VR/AR experience that is engineered to improve their perception of Jews. What rational person would deny at that point that the anti-Semites were right? Your average high-brow anti-Semite would blush to suggest that Jews will compel your children to consume AI-generated, Virtual Reality experiences to brainwash them into loving Jews. But this is being seriously proposed by Dara and some form of what she is suggesting will almost certainly be implemented as the lower-tech solutions are already being used on thousands of students every day.
Again, you're just taking it for granted that the narrative is substantially untrue. This is what you believe, but my point above is that if it's not untrue, then their motives are not only sincere but more or less rational. People actually tried to exterminate them. They actually have good reason to fear this. People like you who campaign on a platform of "It didn't happen, but if it did, they deserved it" hardly make them look less less rational or more deceptive.
That's quite a clever bit of wordplay, but if AI-generated VR experiences become a standard delivery system for educational materials, this sounds a lot less scary than "High-tech dystopian Jew brainwashing." Then you're just complaining that we have too much Holocaust remembrance, and will go on insisting that the backlash will happen any day now.
I was under the impression that the backlash was already here. There's a near constant supply of stories and news articles from reputable sources about how anti-semitism is on the rise, democracy is in trouble, the Wrong People are getting into power, etc. I can definitely see things continuing to get worse, but that doesn't mean that the backlash is some far-off, hazy threat - it is here now and there are thinkpieces complaining about it all the time.
That's rhetoric designed to turn molehills into mountains. You shouldn't take that kind of thing seriously just on the basis that those complaints are there. Those complaints would exist even if there are only a few incidents of anti-Semitic crimes even for the next century.
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What's the evidence that this is a backlash to Holocaust remembrance?
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No I am not, I am saying that the motive for Holocaust remembrance is real, powerful, and valid even if the narrative is substantially untrue. The motive for Holocaust remembrance is not contingent on the historical truth of the narrative as challenged by Revisionists. I fully recognize that and always have, but that fact only uncovers a much deeper conflict and presents larger problems in ascertaining the truth of the matter.
The point I am trying to make, in the spirit of JTarrou's thought experiment, is that the line between culture/politics/religion or education/brain-washing is purely semantic. The critique I am making is not that it is brain-washing per se, it's that it is specifically brain-washing (or education, however you prefer) with a motive to influence children's perceptions of Jews in a particular direction. It's the religion I oppose, not religion itself or even its imminent technological innovations.
I am not grandstanding against VR brain-washing, I am saying to pay attention to the curriculum that gets mandated, the identities and narratives that get constructed into post-modern mega-churches, the messaging and content that is prioritized for adoption. What counts as education and what counts as brainwashing? The prevailing religion. Again, I'll reiterate that JTarrou suggests:
And I am saying that we already have this, and it's the Holocaust narrative. You can call it education, but that's what it is all the same.
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