site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 24, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Yes. Out of habit sometimes I log in to read movie reviews. The last few weeks I would check out the Succession sub to see what people are saying. The comments are the absolute lowest tier garbage of any platform. Messages are typically under 200 characters, repeating lines of dialogue, cheering on a character, or the most basic observations you could imagine. Zero insightful or thoughtful replies. Twitter and YouTube comments are significantly more interesting.

It’s sad how far the internet has fallen.

Messages are typically under 200 characters, repeating lines of dialogue, cheering on a character, or the most basic observations you could imagine. Zero insightful or thoughtful replies.

Sure, but are you attributing to ideological malice an effect that could just as easily be explained by more third-worlders getting Internet access?

Reddit's userbase might have become retarded not due to purging rightists, but due to welcoming people from, uhh, regions of the Earth with less than stellar education systems. In this way, the lower quality of posts represents MORE profitability, not less: you can profit off selling a stupid Brazilian e-advertised tat just as well (probably better) than an intelligent American.

I think that a third worlder who could write well in English and cared to post on online forums would probably be of above average intelligence. I think it's just the smartphone and centralization of internet combining to allow any Anglosphere knuckledragger to effortlessly spam the web with every inane, low-effort, status-seeking comment that pops into their heads.

I can look around at my own family members -- they're all online and participating in social media and online discussions nowadays, when 15 years ago less than half would have been, and 25 years ago, when I first began posting, close to zero would have been. As much as I love my family most of them probably engage in the shitty uninteresting low quality posting people are complaining about here.

And these uneducated Third Worlders speak fluent English?

Your proposed explanation seems implausible. There are more than enough native English speakers who enjoy low-effort rubbish. To confirm this, just check a local US subreddit. How many Brazilians do you think are posting on /r/portland? And I don't think even the best education systems teach people how to post thoughtful media analysis on the internet.

The problem is that repeating a line of dialogue and similarly vapid comments are much easier to make compared to something meaningful, yet they get upvoted just as much, if not more because they are more accessible. It's the Gresham's law of internet forums: bad posts drive out good. A subreddit that doesn't ban image posts will eventually come to be dominated by them, because a picture is much easier to make and much easier to consume than a long text post. This can be prevented only with strict moderation.

How many Brazilians do you think are posting on /r/portland?

On the face of it: this is good evidence against my thesis.

More subtly: "Portland is home to one of the largest immigrant and refugee populations in Oregon", hmmmm, what a twist.

I’m not sure. From what I’ve heard on forums with people who have left mainstream subreddits, it seems to be due to moderator actions. Particularly on subreddits dedicated to franchises that have lost popularity. Moderators tend to remove negative comments and since the shows themselves aren’t well-liked, only neutral or positive comments remain.