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HBDers are ideological descendants of the Eugenics movement, which was as progressive as it gets. The Jim Crow South did not invent racism against Africans, and it did not have a monopoly on it in its own time. That being said, I am pretty sure the Jim Crow South did have a fair amount of ideological cross-pollination with the racialist end of the Progressive movement.
I don't think this is true.
The "scientific" theories behind HBD are certainly descended from the eugenics movement. But early eugenicists were, as you say, progressive and thought their ideas would improve the human race. They thought this would be good for everyone, including blacks. They weren't trying to breed black people out of existence or marginalize them or just consign them to their miserable plight as hopeless inferiors.
Modern HBDers, by contrast, are at best indifferent and at worst hostile to the plight of non-whites. Their approach is not one of trying to improve race relations or the human race. They're tribalists, and HBD offers a convenient narrative why Our Tribe is superior and Their Tribe is awful.
Indifference is not tribalism. And there are modern HBDers who take the tack of wanting to improve the plight of blacks (because it ain't "non-whites" in general, nobody's worried about Asians. Probably American Indians and Australian Aborigines where appropriate. Maybe Hispanics, maybe not); it tends to be tinged with paternalism/condescension because how could it not be under the circumstances?
As for improving race relations, an argument I often hear is that it's not reasonable for blacks to be willing to accept that they'll do worse, therefore HBD is wrong. That's trying to move from an "ought" to an "is" and I'm afraid biology is just not going to co-operate.
No, but "racism isn't real, all bad outcomes are attributable to genetics, therefore fuck you and stop trying to improve their lot" is.
Okay, but even if HBD is true, in the "biology says blacks are going to be at a disadvantage no matter what we do" sense, what should we do about it? The answers vary from "Some bad outcomes are still the result of racism and historical inequities and we should redress those" to "Fuck 'em, nature's a bitch, shouldn't be our problem." Naturally, the latter position leads more easily to even more repugnant conclusions. If you're blackpilling that hard, you don't really care about facts, you're just grasping for justifications for tribal animosity.
Do you appreciate that at the very least it says what we SHOULDN'T do about it? Namely, we shouldn't do that which is mainstream now – gaslight white people with the assumption of their collective, systemic complicity in underperformance of black people; their unmerited privilege; their bumbling idiocy that precludes them noticing literally brain-damaging harms incurred on blacks by the very phenomenon of their white living.
This is not a trivial proposition, for it drastically changes the moral arithmetic of any possible positive action to close performance gaps: from "redressing past wrongs at last" to "voluntarily helping the less fortunate", say; and it changes the whole landscape of authority to have opinions on the subject, which matters arguably even more. It makes your condescension even for more radical HBDers less morally impressive, too.
Derogatory rhetorical flourishes aside, where do you get the idea that I am in favor of this?
I don't care about impressing people, but I will continue to condescend to racists (in the old school, literal sense) because I think racism is morally repugnant and intellectually bankrupt. Yes, that includes the "new" racism of hating on white people.
I am not saying you are in favor. I am saying that implications of HBD can inform constructive enough plans to make rhetorical questions like
– suspect, and your attitude both unreasonable and morally wrong in a way. Knowing what TOTALLY NOT to do because it doesn't help and indeed makes the situation, taken as a whole, worse along neglected dimensions is valuable, productive knowledge. «To begin with, stop fucking digging» is very often good advice. In an ideal world, HBDers could be perfectly content with autistically pointing out Facts About Race that absolve whites of collective guilt/responsibility and predict/explain low RoI of many popular strategies (which are intellectually predicated on HBD being mostly wrong and "systemic white supremacy" being true), while not proposing any positive action themselves. They wouldn't have to be dragged over the coals with this sort of character analysis:
What did you do about race relations? Wrung hands that HBDers (or, here, specifically @The_Nybbler) aren't exceedingly generous, and don't talk nicely enough when being subject and objecting to unironic racism against their people (which you yourself recognize as repugnant)?
But I won't hold you to task for not meaningfully contributing to «improvement of race relations» (not that I care much about that specifically). This is an unreasonable standard, not just on this platform. My point is: being correct, honest and calling out counterproductive bullshit is plenty enough to merit some charity.
Really, that is your impression, that I wring my hands and get upset when people aren't talking nicely enough? I mean, that's usually a criticism of mods coming from a certain belligerent type of poster, but not something I'm used to being accused of personally. You seem to be complaining as you would if I had inappropriately modded someone, when I have done no modding.
But thank you kindly for not holding me to task for not meaningfully contributing to improvement of race relations, since I never claimed I am doing that. We are randos on a message board. I was asked what my beef with HBDers is even though I accept some of their claims. My beef is that I think racial animosity and discrimination is bad. It's not complicated.
Personally I asked:
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