This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
A 30-year-old pregnant nurse attempted to steal a GPS-tracked rental bike from a young black man right outside her workplace, and when a group of onlookers surrounded her and started filming she had the audacity to start acting strangely, call for help, and briefly cry. Don't worry, justice has been served: she has been identified and suspended, and she will never be okay again.
I've heard so many Americans, including my dad, repeatedly claim that America is the best place to live. And here we have a nurse, a woman who job is no less than saving lives, who is also doing her part to address the birthrate crisis, and on top of that is doing the environmentally conscious thing by riding a bike. And this is how she is treated.
I used to think that I got treated badly in the US because I was a nerdy, low-status white male. But maybe America is just an absolutely horrible place to live? So please tell me, freedom-loving patriot who waves the flag. Why should anyone live in America?
The United States is a big place. I've been around the world a decent bit, including to places that I think are absolutely lovely on their own terms, but there's nowhere I'd rather be than a moderate-sized Midwestern American city. Take your pick - Lincoln, Grand Rapids, Madison, Duluth, whatever, these are all nice. The combination of extremely high earnings potential, freewheeling American culture, tremendous food and drink options, relatively low taxes, and so on are just too much to beat for me. I don't think it's necessarily great for everyone, but as an unironic freedom-loving patriot, I always feel happy to come home to the good ol' US of A. Japan is great to visit, but it's stultifying. Much of Europe is nice, but it's so goddamned poor. Australia and Ireland are legitimately pretty close, I think I just like the States better because it's home, but I can see the case.
Is New York City the best place to live? No, it's a filthy shithole run by corrupt scum. You should expect to be accosted by Jordan Neely, taxed aggressively to support parasites, and treated like you're the asshole for thinking that bodegas don't make it all worthwhile. But you don't actually have to live in New York City unless you insist on working a specific sort of finance or law.
Yeah, I was forced to work in a different industry hub, the one with all the electrons. It was, as you say, a filthy shithole. Then I tried other parts of the USA, and they were better, but not actually livable I'd say. It's hard to live under this constant umbrella of what I call moralism. Since leaving the US bubble I feel free for the first time in my life, free from people policing my life, my sexuality or my opinions on some racial nonsense. I can actually have a life, go to the amusement park with my girlfriend, that kind of thing. And yeah, this country is a "filthy shithole" in a more literal sense (dirt poor), but I guess I just tolerate a somewhat lower standard of living. It's not the stone ages or anything, just the streets are fucked up, the shower sucks, the wifi sucks. But I'm not being treated like shit by everyone, like this poor nurse! That more than makes up for it!
I’ve also had the distinct pleasure of working in the city you referenced.
The homeless there are awful, but to me they weren’t the worst of it.
I spent a lot of time around rich and powerful people there, and I’d be amazed if they didn’t have the highest number of psychopaths per capita. The whole place seethed with demonic energy, and I routinely saw extremely depraved behavior from supposedly high class people.
Who knew a collective obsession with acquiring and wielding power and secrecy whilst leveraging it to enrich yourself would produce a whole class of devilspawn?
It was a relief to leave that place behind.
Have you spent much time around DC?
Hyup. Way, way too much. Absolutely soul destroying city.
Very physically beautiful in parts, for sure.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
What are you talking about here, if you can share?
A lot of this stuff might not seem that bad in isolation just written down, but keep in mind many of these were all compounded together and the specific way these actions have more menace when someone very powerful is committing them, often strung together.
Keep in mind this was all in public or semi-public settings
Public sex
Galavanting around in public with clearly underage prostitutes
Extreme levels of drunkenness, like drinking until you piss yourself and pass out in a pool of vomit
Extreme levels of illegal drug use out in the open
Credible threats of physical violence, including threatening to have people killed
Continuous severe verbal harassment for 20+ minutes, screaming at the top of their lungs
Sexual blackmail
Extreme acts of conspicuous consumption
Pretty blatant acts of corruption
That about sums it up. Like I said, written down doesn’t seem like much but when the powerful and rich indulge in depravity they tend to go hard, and it’s different when a bum does it in the street because a bum (probably) couldn’t ruin your life if they were dead set on it.
If you’ve ever seen the second season of White Lotus, they pretty much captured a milder version of the dynamic I’m talking about.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link