site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 15, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

A 30-year-old pregnant nurse attempted to steal a GPS-tracked rental bike from a young black man right outside her workplace, and when a group of onlookers surrounded her and started filming she had the audacity to start acting strangely, call for help, and briefly cry. Don't worry, justice has been served: she has been identified and suspended, and she will never be okay again.

  • -29

I'm posting another comment because this is my favorite story in a long time. It just exposes so many things that are insane with American culture:

  • Why is she getting fired for this? Is there any evidence she did anything wrong, inappropriate, immoral or illegal?

  • Why isn't the behavior of the black man considered sexual harassment? He's deep in her personal space.

  • Why is a sixth month pregnant woman traveling on NYC streets on a rented bicycle? It's 2023 and we can't get reasonable transportation for pregnant women? We're on the verge of having home robots (and a massive unemployment crisis) and we can't even keep a pregnant woman at home where she is most safe?

  • Why on earth are people, in this thread, complaining about white women's tears? I'm a 100% hetero man and I'd break down crying if this happened to me. She was accosted by multiple huge men who were scamming her and humiliating her on the internet. Seriously, if you aren't on her side, I think you lack empathy or something.

Imagine showing this to someone in 1900. We have instant global film-making and we use it to ruin the lives of pregnant nurses, briefly following a massive global pandemic where nurses were on the front lines. And the powers that be decided to side with the teenagers and ruin this nurse's life! (And that's without the racial angle, obviously.) I'm going to be laughing about this story all day. It's just so absurd. I can't imagine anything more ridiculous, but the simulation is manifold I guess.

I'm posting another comment because this is my favorite story in a long time

I'd say that says a lot more about you than it does the alleged story.

  • -28

Are you going to keep shooting varmints from your porch like this until we have to ban you?

If the sole content of your post is to express how much contempt you feel for the poster, don't post it.

I intend to "keep shooting varmints from my porch" until someone provides a compelling argument as to why I should not. If doing so results in my getting banned, that is a consequence I am prepared to live with.

I intend to "keep shooting varmints from my porch" until someone provides a compelling argument as to why I should not.

The argument is in the rules you used to enforce. You're expected to be civil here and address the arguments, not the poster. You know this. Of course saying "You're stupid and you suck" will get you banned.

...and as I keep arguing, the rules are a means rather than an end.

One of the major differences between myself and most of the other users here is that I have always viewed "Consistency" and "Rationality" as overrated.

...and as I keep arguing, the rules are a means rather than an end.

Well, I can't make you do anything, but you don't decide how the rules are enforced.

One of the major differences between myself and most of the other users here is that I have always viewed "Consistency" and "Rationality" as overrated.

Actually, I don't think most of the users here are particularly consistent, and I have doubts about many genuine rationalists are left.

But you, I'm afraid, are just making the same argument our polemicists and shit-stirrers do when they decide the rules is a stupid.