This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Not to be outdone by Bud Lite, Miller Lite has apparently been running their own "woke" beer advertisements: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_NtBQWZqaHo
IMO the campaign here is actually clever, take this "bad" thing, use money to buy it, and turn it into a "good" thing. Whoever came up with this idea: cool idea.
But here's my question: is any of this old "bad" stuff actually bad? Let's look at contemporary things like onlyfans, instagram, tiktok, the hundreds of reddit 'gonewild' type porn forums, etc. It seems to me that many women, given the chance, enjoy wearing bikinis, being sexualized, being lusted after etc. Not all women, obviously, since some women don't like this, but...isn't this trying to strip the pro-sexualization women of their agency?
Aside from that, isn't Miller saying that women belong...in the kitchen? Don't go out to the beach and get drunk and have fun. Wear modest clothing (like the person in the ad), stay inside in the dark, and make things for people to eat.
Also: the claim that women were the primary brewers historically, is not only dumb, it's also wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weihenstephan_Abbey?useskin=vector
Trappist ales were the first thing I thought of in response to the claim that women were the original brewers of beer.
Also that fermented grain drinks arose in every culture with access to grain, and that it sourcing the original beer brewer would be as impossible as figuring out who baked the first loaf of bread.
Yeah, my first thought was "even if it were true...so what?"
Like, we're not talking about some segregated modern job that can easily be tracked and we know it was mainly men did advanced mathematics until recently.
It was one form of manual work in a very different environment that didn't have those sharp lines. Why would I be surprised or blown away in any way by the idea that women allegedly worked in it as well?
I think their narrative is meant to be something like the following:
Ever since the very beginning of history up until the Founding of America, women have always been brewing beer. Girl power!
But then, men took this from women! At some unspecified time and in some unspecified fashion, they took all the respectable jobs of growing and brewing, and stripped the women down to use them as mere advertisements.
But now, Miller Lite is undoing all that! They're putting women back in charge (where they belong) and erasing and defacing the artifacts of the previous perverted period. Girl power!
So the reason why general-you is being asked to care about this is because bad things have been done, and now Miller Lite is undoing the badness and restoring the industry to its natural state, and they want you to help. They're not just making the point that "women have long been involved in the beer industries", they're advocating for rolling back the clock on the misdeeds of the recent past and retvrning to the alleged tradition of having women in charge. In that regard, it's quite a reactionary ad.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link